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Intel using TSMC N3B for Nova Lake

L

lefty

Active member
The latest leaked Intel slides shows that Intel Nova Lake Luna Lake CPU/GPU die is using TSMC's N3B node, rather than N3E.
Most people assumed that N3B would only be used by Apple, and that most TSMC customers would skip it and use N3E instead because N3E has less EUV layers, making it cheaper and also performs better. Nova Lake Luna Lake is due to be released probably late 2024 / early 2025, so could have easily used N3E which goes into production this year.


 
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That pic shows Luna Lake MX, Not "Nova Lake". I guess it spells some news. Either too much 20A is happening, or 1.8A aren't happening. At least Intel and AMD might be competing on the same node. That'll be interesting
 
lefty said:
The latest leaked Intel slides shows that Intel Nova Lake Luna Lake CPU/GPU die is using TSMC's N3B node, rather than N3E.
Most people assumed that N3B would only be used by Apple, and that most TSMC customers would skip it and use N3E instead because N3E has less EUV layers, making it cheaper and also performs better. Nova Lake Luna Lake is due to be released probably late 2024 / early 2025, so could have easily used N3E which goes into production this year.


Click to expand...

TSMC made it very clear that Apple would not be alone in the first phase of N3. I think Apple's volumes had something to do with that. Only the iPhone Pro has N3, the iPhone 15 has N4. I don't know why Apple did that, it was the first time they split models with different SoCs. It will be interesting to see what Apple does next year.

At one time I was told that Intel would be TSMC's #2 customer in 2025. This was before Pat G. I wonder if it will still hold true?
 
Daniel Nenni said:
TSMC made it very clear that Apple would not be alone in the first phase of N3. I think Apple's volumes had something to do with that. Only the iPhone Pro has N3, the iPhone 15 has N4. I don't know why Apple did that, it was the first time they split models with different SoCs. It will be interesting to see what Apple does next year.

At one time I was told that Intel would be TSMC's #2 customer in 2025. This was before Pat G. I wonder if it will still hold true?
Click to expand...
This year should be the 2nd time Apple split their SOC to different process nodes.
2022 iPhone 14 Pro/Pro Max used A16 (N4) and iPhone 14 used A15 (N5).
The idea should be for larger product differentiation between Pro and non-Pro and cost saving because only Pro/Pro Max adapt new process. People like to have the most advanced SOC and only Pro/Pro Max have the latest SOC. The strategy seems work that the sale numbers of Pro model increase significantly.

The next year will be interesting. Because if following the same rule, iPhone 16 (A17) should use N3B and iPhone 16 Pro/Pro Max (A18) should use N3E. However, N3E is more cost efficient, so there's a rumor that all the SOCs used in iPhone 16/Pro/Pro Max will use N3E.
 
Maximus said:
This year should be the 2nd time Apple split their SOC to different process nodes.
2022 iPhone 14 Pro/Pro Max used A16 (N4) and iPhone 14 used A15 (N5).
The idea should be for larger product differentiation between Pro and non-Pro and cost saving because only Pro/Pro Max adapt new process. People like to have the most advanced SOC and only Pro/Pro Max have the latest SOC. The strategy seems work that the sale numbers of Pro model increase significantly.

The next year will be interesting. Because if following the same rule, iPhone 16 (A17) should use N3B and iPhone 16 Pro/Pro Max (A18) should use N3E. However, N3E is more cost efficient, so there's a rumor that all the SOCs used in iPhone 16/Pro/Pro Max will use N3E.
Click to expand...

Right, I didn't count that because N5/4 are the same to me (same fab). N4 and N3 are different fabs so they are counted differently by TSMC. I doubt Apple will use N3B again since it is more expensive and less throughput with the additional EUV layers. But, as you said, if Apple can get more people to buy the high end phones due to a more "advanced" SoC then maybe so. I buy the Pro versions for the bigger screen and battery, not for the better SoC. I don't think I would notice the difference.

Do you have any idea what the iPhone user split is between the iPhone 15 and the 15 pro/max? What about the 14 and 14 Pro/Max? Do people really care about a 5nm versus a 4nm SoC?
 
Daniel Nenni said:
Right, I didn't count that because N5/4 are the same to me (same fab). N4 and N3 are different fabs so they are counted differently by TSMC. I doubt Apple will use N3B again since it is more expensive and less throughput with the additional EUV layers. But, as you said, if Apple can get more people to buy the high end phones due to a more "advanced" SoC then maybe so. I buy the Pro versions for the bigger screen and battery, not for the better SoC. I don't think I would notice the difference.

Do you have any idea what the iPhone user split is between the iPhone 15 and the 15 pro/max? What about the 14 and 14 Pro/Max? Do people really care about a 5nm versus a 4nm SoC?
Click to expand...
Japan's survey on the first 5 days sale:
iPhone 12 Pro/whole 12 series: 30.8%, iPhone 13 Pro/whole 13 series: 44.0%, iPhone 14 Pro/whole 14 series: 50.2%, iPhone 15 Pro/whole 15 series: 47.4%
----
I guess people care more about it's a "new" SOC vs "old" SOC rather than the process node difference, although smaller nm number sounds better too :)
 
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