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Apple silicon engineering team experienced substantial technical and personnel troubles in lead up to A16, according to The Information [paywalled]

M. Y. Zuo

Active member
"

Inside Apple’s War for Chip Talent​

By
Wayne Ma

Dec. 23, 2022 6:00 AM PST

For more than a decade, Apple’s silicon engineering group has helped give Apple a competitive edge in smartphones and laptops. The custom chips it designs make its products snappier to use or help them eke out an hour or more of extra battery life. Last year, though, Apple’s chip department hit a serious setback.
Apple planned a generational leap for the graphics processor in the latest version of its high-end smartphones, the iPhone 14 Pro. But engineers were too ambitious with adding new features, and early prototypes drew more power than what the company had expected based on software simulations. That could have hurt battery life and made the device too hot, according to two people with direct knowledge of the incident. Because Apple discovered the mistake late in development, it had to base the graphics processor in its iPhone 14 Pro line—which powers the phone’s user interface, games and everything else visible on its screen—largely on the design of the chip that went into last year’s iPhone model, according to four people familiar with the matter.
Those people described the snafu, which hasn’t been previously reported, as unprecedented in the group’s history. The iPhone 14 Pro models, which went on sale in September, showed only small gains in graphics performance compared to the leaps prior generations of iPhones had made over their predecessors, according to testing by independent chip-benchmarking firms.
...
"

Don't know enough about Apple's internal organization to comment on if this is credible or not.
This outlet has published decently accurate reports on some Bay Area tech industry topics in the past.
 
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I suppose it isn’t impossible to believe. It was a small slip up for a team that never makes them. Not unbelievable in my opinion. I was under the impression that the soc is unchanged because this was the best Apple could do with N3 being late (especially given the limited time to adapt to this situation). This explanation seems more logical, but maybe the former is true? Maybe they are both true? All I know is I don’t work as a chip designer for Apple, and if I did I wouldn’t be talking about inside baseball (especially in a public place like a semiwiki forum thread).
 
I suppose it isn’t impossible to believe. It was a small slip up for a team that never makes them. Not unbelievable in my opinion. I was under the impression that the soc is unchanged because this was the best Apple could do with N3 being late (especially given the limited time to adapt to this situation). This explanation seems more logical, but maybe the former is true? Maybe they are both true? All I know is I don’t work as a chip designer for Apple, and if I did I wouldn’t be talking about inside baseball (especially in a public place like a semiwiki forum thread).
I agree, I normally wouldn't post any random news article here, but this outlet has never published complete lies before. Even then I almost didn't until I recalled hearing about many Apple folks leaving for other semi companies recently.
 
I agree, I normally wouldn't post any random news article here, but this outlet has never published complete lies before. Even then I almost didn't until I recalled hearing about many Apple folks leaving for other semi companies recently.
What other companies? I thought Nuvia was the only one.
 
Don't know enough about Apple's internal organization to comment on if this is credible or not.
This outlet has published decently accurate reports on some Bay Area tech industry topics in the past.

It is credible.

Apple's 'unprecedented' engineering snafu reportedly spoiled plans for more powerful iPhone 14 Pro chip​



The iPhone 14 Pro’s A16 Bionic chip uses a similar architecture to the A15 in the iPhone 13 Pro, but that was only Apple’s fallback plan, according to a report from The Information. The company wanted to add a next-generation GPU that supports ray tracing, but the silicon team discovered crucial design mistakes late in development. It allegedly had to scrap its plans and opt for the A16 we got.

The botched plans can reportedly be traced back to Apple’s silicon engineers being “too ambitious with adding new features.” The planned 2022 silicon would have supported ray tracing, the technique that makes light in video games behave as it does in real life. Software simulations had suggested it was feasible, and the company moved forward with prototyping. But test hardware drew more power than the engineers had expected, which would have hurt battery life and overheated the device.

Because Apple caught the mistakes late in development, it had to scrap the plans for this generation and opt instead for the A16 that shipped this fall. (In Apple’s September keynote, rather than puffing up the new chip’s monumental gains, as it typically does, it only briefly mentioned that the GPU had 50 percent more memory bandwidth.) The report’s sources described the screwup as “unprecedented in the group’s history.”

The Information's report connects this incident to bigger-picture struggles within the Apple Silicon team. It details the effective but highly demanding leadership under the senior vice president of Hardware Technologies, Johny Srouji. He runs the group “like a well-oiled machine,” but it’s also struggled with the limits of Moore’s law and a talent exodus to startups and rival chip makers. It allegedly lost the most talent to Nuvia, founded by former Apple chip designer Gerard Williams III — a well-liked leader among Apple’s silicon engineers. (Qualcomm bought Nuvia in 2021.) The designer who replaced Williams, Mike Filippo, then “clashed with engineers” before leaving to join Microsoft. Apple hasn’t yet replaced him. Additionally, the company reportedly tried to limit the talent exodus by showing presentations to engineers highlighting the riskiness of working for chip startups, warning that most fail.
 
I agree, I normally wouldn't post any random news article here, but this outlet has never published complete lies before. Even then I almost didn't until I recalled hearing about many Apple folks leaving for other semi companies recently.
or retiring...
 
It is credible.
The Information's report connects this incident to bigger-picture struggles within the Apple Silicon team.
Iterating like a well-oiled machine in pursuit of reliable scaling is something a big org can do well. Being the place lightning strikes with feasible approaches to a whole new paradigm like real time ray-tracing on battery power - that is what start-ups are for and why that big machine also should have piles of cash and an eye for the right purchase.

The risks of working at startups have never been that bad, and Apple by requiring office presence in Cupertino has ensured it has a workforce well aware that while startups may fail, and their sweat-equity may evaporate rather than vest, they will have added to their resume and have new adventures ahead. Now the internet makes that culture global. Every new opportunity is just like the old valley - laid off on Friday, signed on with bonus across the street on Monday. As it should be. The sweat-equity system for engineers is the synergistic complement of the VC system.
 
Additionally, the company reportedly tried to limit the talent exodus by showing presentations to engineers highlighting the riskiness of working for chip startups, warning that most fail.

So Apply... you can't get more Apple than that... saying as somebody with plenty of former coworkers who went to work there.
 
Additionally, the company reportedly tried to limit the talent exodus by showing presentations to engineers highlighting the riskiness of working for chip startups, warning that most fail.

So Apply... you can't get more Apple than that... saying as somebody with plenty of former coworkers who went to work there.

608 of my LinkedIn connections now work there. It used to be more so maybe they have done some trimming?

Without the semiconductor start-ups that Apple acquired Apple would not be in the dominant silicon position they are in today, right? Apple seems to be damaging the ladder they used to get to the top so no one can follow? Or maybe just an HR person who doesn't know any better?
 
608 of my LinkedIn connections now work there. It used to be more so maybe they have done some trimming?

Without the semiconductor start-ups that Apple acquired Apple would not be in the dominant silicon position they are in today, right? Apple seems to be damaging the ladder they used to get to the top so no one can follow? Or maybe just an HR person who doesn't know any better?

I mean Apple has a lasting habit of treating 6 figure making engineers as dayjobbers, and as if they care about benefits, or being docked few leave days for a transgression.

In Apple R&D centre in China, they have 30 negative points system, after spending which, you get fired. Points are lifelong, and the most minimal transgression is -3 already.

1 year income for a senior HDL coder there is enough to spend few lifetimes off these savings in a village. And Apple logo on your resume means you are instahired by many companies who chase after trendy Apple engineers.
 
I mean Apple has a lasting habit of treating 6 figure making engineers as dayjobbers, and as if they care about benefits, or being docked few leave days for a transgression.

In Apple R&D centre in China, they have 30 negative points system, after spending which, you get fired. Points are lifelong, and the most minimal transgression is -3 already.

1 year income for a senior HDL coder there is enough to spend few lifetimes off these savings in a village. And Apple logo on your resume means you are instahired by many companies who chase after trendy Apple engineers.
Amazing...
 
I mean Apple has a lasting habit of treating 6 figure making engineers as dayjobbers, and as if they care about benefits, or being docked few leave days for a transgression.

In Apple R&D centre in China, they have 30 negative points system, after spending which, you get fired. Points are lifelong, and the most minimal transgression is -3 already.

1 year income for a senior HDL coder there is enough to spend few lifetimes off these savings in a village. And Apple logo on your resume means you are instahired by many companies who chase after trendy Apple engineers.
Can the same engineers earn positive points?
 
I would be interested to know how Apple operates, how the chip design function operates, and how they set and work toward goals.

If you work backwards from what Apple has achieved (more than any other chip designer, arguably), asking how they achieved it, I think you arrive at the conclusion that Apple has fewer constraints, not more as this thread is implying. If engineers are constrained, by points or whatever, that will show up in the results.
 
I would be interested to know how Apple operates, how the chip design function operates, and how they set and work toward goals.

If you work backwards from what Apple has achieved (more than any other chip designer, arguably), asking how they achieved it, I think you arrive at the conclusion that Apple has fewer constraints, not more as this thread is implying. If engineers are constrained, by points or whatever, that will show up in the results.
That was in China. Architecture is prodomidly in Cali
 
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