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Intel CEO to Visit Taiwan, Home of Biggest Chipmaking Rival

Intel has two faults

They don't have the technical people to operate the nova machinery at all their sites. This is the "simple" fix.

Intel's chip design productivity gap is much worse than the fabless ecosystem. Intel will need to reinvent themselves to survive.

Portland, not necessarily a fault?, but certainly a huge deficit, when comparing Intel to TSMC, is TSMC fabricates for ~500 clients, each with different requirements e.g. combinations of CPU, GPU, memory, radios, antennas, high power switching, radiation-hardened circuitry, etc., sometimes all interconnected, and always changing.

One can safely say, that if it’s reasonably possible, TSMC can or has fabricated it, routinely and successfully. The same can’t be said about Intel, in the least.
 
Pat Gelsinger and his associates took a private jet from San Jose, California through Anchorage Alaska then arrived Taipei Taiwan today. He is expected to leave Taiwan tomorrow to visit Malaysia.

He released a greeting video before leaving for the trip.

 
Pat Gelsinger and his associates took a private jet from San Jose, California through Anchorage Alaska then arrived Taipei Taiwan today. He is expected to leave Taiwan tomorrow to visit Malaysia.

He released a greeting video before leaving for the trip.


Intel and TSMC agreed to enter a partnership that could extend beyond 2025. Additionally, Intel is expected to become one of TSMC's major customers as soon as the N3 nodes become operational.

https://www.digitimes.com.tw/tech/d...1&cat=0&cat1=&cat2=&id=625425&packageid=17458
 
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3nm capacity expansion is EUV constrained at TSMC. So dedicated line with upfront payment will buy capacity away from others. One way or another.

*I’m not saying this will effect the minimum order commit in contracts from Qualcomm AMD etc.. but the upper ranges could be at risk. Doubt Apple will be effected in the slightest
 
Intel used to give TSMC lots of "projects" in order to occupy TSMC's resources to serve other customers like AMD.

This time Intel might be doing similar thing. Paying big time money to squeeze out nvidia and AMD.
 
Intel used to give TSMC lots of "projects" in order to occupy TSMC's resources to serve other customers like AMD.

This time Intel might be doing similar thing. Paying big time money to squeeze out nvidia and AMD.

Is Intel to become a top 3nm customer, or a Trojan Horse?

VCT and this tech analyst say it may be the latter.

 
It will be interesting to see if Pat's narrative about TSMC and Taiwan will change after his visit. I certainly hope so.

Intel will not be TSMC's top 3nm customer unless their process roadmap goes horribly wrong. Apple will always be number one followed by AMD and Mediatek. Since TSMC builds capacity based on customer commitments I don't see a problem here. It is all in the wafer agreements and contracts which include pre pays etc...

Given the worlds insatiable need for semiconductors I doubt any of TSMCs fabs will sit idle.

I do wonder who will win the GAA race. Clearly FinFETs are end of life. Intel, Samsung and TSMC are in a tight race. Could the winner could reap the huge benefits TSMC has during the FinFET era.
 
The reason behind the visit has nothing to do with 3N capacity. To get 3N capacity Intel had to sign a very large contract which included a prepay so TSMC can build to order fabs. This was a photo op for Pat Gelsinger.



Yesterday, Gelsinger addressed the importance of local supply chains, saying that Taiwan is also home to more than 1,000 Intel employees who have been working closely with “our Taiwan customers and partners for the last 36 years to deliver leadership products.”

“Prominent among these partnerships is our long-standing relationship with TSMC. TSMC has unlocked the magic of silicon for us and others in the industry in so many ways, creating products that would otherwise never have existed,” he said in a prerecorded video. “What TSMC has done is spectacular.”

Although Gelsinger has not revealed the reason behind his visit, industry insiders and analysts believe that he came for TSMC’s 3-nanometer chips, which are to be the most advanced chips when they become available in the second half of next year.
 
In a game of checkers I agree with you but in a game of chess you are wrong.

Pat is saying that TSMC’s business model requires 30-40% subsidies which is an insult in any part of the world. And if Pat is not insulting TSMC then why is Morris Chang going after Pat? This is very easy to see. Pat is trying to turn public opinion against competitors with false narratives, simple as that.

A pure thought experiment here (note I agree 100% with you, and not just because you're the founder of this site ;-) ) --

I think all governments subsidize big corporations to a substantial degree. It's also possible that Intel is effectively already subsidized by 20% and Pat is asking for more.

Examples of subsidies governments give businesses:
- Tax breaks on land
- Depreciation and other operating tax perks
- Low corporate taxes or taxes with loopholes (FWIW - Taiwan is 20% corp tax, US 21% - hardly a difference)
- Contract wins to ensure stable business / preferred contract status (usually unwritten)
- Stipends or retainers for business fluctations (i.e. see ULA's $1B a year retainer/subsidy - even if they do zero launches)
- Department / Government 'funds'
- Catering to lobbying on specific laws/issues or just implementing laws favoring some corporations over another (i.e. barriers to entry)
- Favorable foreign trade policies
- Subsidized shipping costs (i.e. China)
- Government investment in the stock directly (i.e. GM / Chrysler type stuff)
- Cheaper access to commodities - such as water/energy agreements
- Access to cheap loans, capital
- Abstract benefits - such employee incentives to make it easier for them to live in an area where it might be too expensive otherwise (effectively giving companies access to cheaper skilled labor), or subsidized higher education -- which means the students don't have debts that have to be paid for by higher wages.
- Arguable subsidies - further abstracted - the US government (military) subsidizes the price of oil for all US citizens, effectively lowering the cost of labor for US businesses

....

Some of these may apply to TSMC. I also see TSMC's own FAQ shows a 6.38% ownership stake by "National Development Fund", and a smaller 2.42% stake by "Citibank (Taiwan) Ltd. in custody for Government of Singapore". The NDF website says it's a fund established by the government [to strengthen strategic industries]; in a way this is a subsidy for TSMC as it is government (taxpayer) money buying shares of the company increasing TSMC's access to capital that the free market didn't already provide, or perhaps directly funding some of TSMC's R&D.

I don't think this fully builds a case for 30-40% subsidies for TSMC, but the amount of benefits large corporations receive from governments (taxpayers) are quite substantial.

P.S. SemiWiki may have the influence to get a known journalist (Semiaccurate?) to ask Pat about what makes up this subsidy sometime in the future..
 
I don't think this fully builds a case for 30-40% subsidies for TSMC, but the amount of benefits large corporations receive from governments (taxpayers) are quite substantial.

P.S. SemiWiki may have the influence to get a known journalist (Semiaccurate?) to ask Pat about what makes up this subsidy sometime in the future..

I agree with you on government subsidies but Intel is guilty of that as well along with everyone else. For Pat to call out TSMC is the pot calling the kettle black.

I do disagree with you about SemiAccurate. Charley is a wanker :ROFLMAO: but I do owe him a debt of gratitude. I was a briefly a member of his site and found it so horribly wrong about the semiconductor industry I started SemiWiki.com. In fact I used the same forum software platform as he did.
 
I agree with you government subsidies but Intel is guilty of that as well along with everyone else. For Pat to call out TSMC is the pot calling the kettle black.

I do disagree with you about SemiAccurate. Charley is a wanker :ROFLMAO: but I do owe him a debt of gratitude. I was a briefly a member of his site and found it so horribly wrong about the semiconductor industry I started SemiWiki.com. In fact I used the same forum software platform as he did.
It will be interesting to see if Pat's narrative about TSMC and Taiwan will change after his visit. I certainly hope so.

Intel will not be TSMC's top 3nm customer unless their process roadmap goes horribly wrong. Apple will always be number one followed by AMD and Mediatek. Since TSMC builds capacity based on customer commitments I don't see a problem here. It is all in the wafer agreements and contracts which include pre pays etc...

Given the worlds insatiable need for semiconductors I doubt any of TSMCs fabs will sit idle.

I do wonder who will win the GAA race. Clearly FinFETs are end of life. Intel, Samsung and TSMC are in a tight race. Could the winner could reap the huge benefits TSMC has during the FinFET era.
I have no inside information but I believe Intel will be one of TSMC's 3nm top customers.
If I'm Intel, I will pay more to get 3nm earlier than competitors.
It will cost more and sacrifice profit margin in the next few years. But it will help Intel get more market share in GPU market and secure CPU market shares.
Strategic wise it's worth it and Intel have money.

*Monica Chen of DigiTimes is very creditable. I personally know her and seen her interviewing big names in Taiwan.
 
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Some of these may apply to TSMC. I also see TSMC's own FAQ shows a 6.38% ownership stake by "National Development Fund", and a smaller 2.42% stake by "Citibank (Taiwan) Ltd. in custody for Government of Singapore". The NDF website says it's a fund established by the government [to strengthen strategic industries]; in a way this is a subsidy for TSMC as it is government (taxpayer) money buying shares of the company increasing TSMC's access to capital that the free market didn't already provide, or perhaps directly funding some of TSMC's R&D.
false, that fund accounted for 40% of the shares when TSMC was founded. they had to keep selling the stakes to pay taxes.
 
The more Pat Gelsinger interviews I watch the more concerned I am. Hopefully there is a method to this madness.
 
SemiAccurate
SemiAccurate is just that. I read them, and Charlie has made some really great calls, but he only gets it right about half the time and his writing can be pretty sensationalist. SemiWiki provides better quality, less speculative information.
 
Also, it's only a matter of time before Pat pivots back to going fabless. You can't be seriously be a foundry, a completely volume dependent business, trying to pull in volumes from fabless companies to make the business case work while also sending half your own volumes out the door to TSMC. The only way it makes sense is if there is a plan to spin off IFS down the road.
 
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