Intel CEO to Visit Taiwan, Home of Biggest Chipmaking Rival

[hist78]

Article link:

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

My thoughts:

1. If Pat's Taiwan/TSMC upcoming visit has been planned for a while in advance, then Pat's recent talking against TSMC is a strange preparation style. It's like someone claimed to be Pat Galsinger who tried hard to sabotage the real Pat Galsinger's Taiwan trip.

2. If this trip is organized only recently, then probably someone inside of Intel (including Pat) recognized there are some signs of serious relationship problems between Intel and TSMC that Pat has to make a trip to tackle it.

 

[fansink]

I thought TSMC had a queue for most process lines, especially their newest nodes, and that the newer node customer agreements and advanced payments were executed before/during foundry planning/construction, thereby determining those advanced customers place in such queue?

Surely Intel knows this, so why wasn’t the Intel agreement made long ago?

 

[count]

I thought TSMC had a queue for most process lines, especially their newest nodes, and that the newer node customer agreements and advanced payments were executed before/during foundry planning/construction, thereby determining those advanced customers place in such queue?

Surely Intel knows this, so why wasn’t the Intel agreement made long ago?

We've been speculating here that Intel had made a fairly large prepayment to secure 3nm. Maybe they want more?

 

[hist78]

We've been speculating here that Intel had made a fairly large prepayment to secure 3nm. Maybe they want more?

Like many relationship there are important things can't be spelled out or predicted completely in the contract. Intel needs to gain TSMC's trust and collaboration for many existing and new projects in the coming years.

Other than the IP infringement lawsuits between Apple and Samsung, I don't recall AMD, Apple, Nvidia, Qualcomm, Mediatek, or Broadcom ever accuse their foundry partners for something publicly.

Pat Gelsinger's approach in building relationship with foundries is probably a unique one in the industry.

 

[soAsian]

Like many relationship there are important things can't be spelled out or predicted completely in the contract. Intel needs to gain TSMC's trust and collaboration for many existing and new projects in the coming years.

Other than the IP infringement lawsuits between Apple and Samsung, I don't recall AMD, Apple, Nvidia, Qualcomm, Mediatek, or Broadcom ever accuse their foundry partners for something publicly.

Pat Gelsinger's approach in building relationship with foundries is probably a unique one in the industry.

the only dispute that i am aware so far for TSMC is GlobalFoundries vs TSMC. i never hear any dispute between TSMC and its customers.

 

[Portland]

Amd is a competitor and apple, Qualcomm or mediatek can be as well but is tsmc? Intel's problem is their business model, an idm cpu manufacturer isn't for today.

 

[lilo777]

Like many relationship there are important things can't be spelled out or predicted completely in the contract. Intel needs to gain TSMC's trust and collaboration for many existing and new projects in the coming years.

Other than the IP infringement lawsuits between Apple and Samsung, I don't recall AMD, Apple, Nvidia, Qualcomm, Mediatek, or Broadcom ever accuse their foundry partners for something publicly.

Pat Gelsinger's approach in building relationship with foundries is probably a unique one in the industry.

What did PG accuse TSMC of? I think you are imagining things.

 

[Portland]

Pat gelsinger insulted tsmc many times and insulted taiwan.

 

[lilo777]

Pat gelsinger insulted tsmc many times and insulted taiwan.

I hear this a lot but nobody can provide a single example.

 

[Portland]

I hear this a lot but nobody can provide a single example.

Look in the forums there are plenty of examples. The guy is a rudderless ship.

 

[lilo777]

Look in the forums there are plenty of examples. The guy is a rudderless ship.

I have been reading the forums. Tons of opinions, no examples. For some reason, people interpret reference to tensions between China and Taiwan as criticism of TSMC. That's a strange logic to put it mildly.

 

[Portland]

I have been reading the forums. Tons of opinions, no examples. For some reason, people interpret reference to tensions between China and Taiwan as criticism of TSMC. That's a strange logic to put it mildly.

Look further pat gelsinger has been "big game hunting" tsmc for years. Only a moron would argue that insulting someone's country doesn't matter.

Intel seems to be in a hole and I expect Daniel nenni to write about if he still cares.

 

[lilo777]

Look further pat gelsinger has been "big game hunting" tsmc for years. Only a moron would argue that insulting someone's country doesn't matter.

Intel seems to be in a hole and I expect Daniel nenni to write about if he still cares.

When did PG insult Taiwan?

 

[Portland]

Intel must be a sinking ship. Was going to go to university of tel Aviv and come back to Oregon to work there but a fight happened with washco Nazis or police. To bad for the people.

 

[fansink]

We've been speculating here that Intel had made a fairly large prepayment to secure 3nm. Maybe they want more?

Thanks Count, your comment “wanting more” gave me an idea. Normally, risk production starts after a warm-up and initial tuning phase, whereby yields are low but sufficient to get customers something to start playing with, so they can work out bugs on their end. This risk production, or production tuning phase usually lasts 6 to 9 months, where at the end (4Q22), when yields are acceptably higher, high volume production begins.

Intel’s only opening in the queue, is now, during risk production. Since TSMC's 3nm fab has full capacity now, yet under-utilized due to low yields, buying all this risk capacity gives Intel a huge market advantage, albeit at a huge price. It’s essential for Intel and it’s great for TSMC, since this will accelerate their tuning phase, and generate huge unanticipated revenue for both.

It’s the only untapped portion of the queue available that won’t violate anyone else’s place in the queue.

 

[hist78]

Thanks Count, your comment “wanting more” gave me an idea. Normally, risk production starts after a warm-up and initial tuning phase, whereby yields are low but sufficient to get customers something to start playing with, so they can work out bugs on their end. This risk production, or production tuning phase usually lasts 6 to 9 months, where at the end (4Q22), when yields are acceptably higher, high volume production begins.

Intel’s only opening in the queue, is now, during risk production. Since TSMC's 3nm fab has full capacity now, yet under-utilized due to low yields, buying all this risk capacity gives Intel a huge market advantage, albeit at a huge price. It’s essential for Intel and it’s great for TSMC, since this will accelerate their tuning phase, and generate huge unanticipated revenue for both.

It’s the only untapped portion of the queue available that won’t violate anyone else’s place in the queue.

Why can't they just do the negotiation over the Microsoft Team Meeting, Google Meet, Zoom, or Cisco WebEx?

Taiwan is still having tight Covid-19 border control that prevents noncitizens to enter unless for special reasons. Pat and his associates obviously got the permission.

 

[fansink]

Why can't they just do the negotiation over the Microsoft Team Meeting, Google Meet, Zoom, or Cisco WebEx?

Taiwan is still having tight Covid-19 border control that prevents noncitizens to enter unless for special reasons. Pat and his associates obviously got the permission.

If what I offered is true, Pat can’t leave this sort of unconventional bold move to subordinates, and if things don’t go well in the end, Pat needs to have at least looked like he excessively fulfilled his fiduciary responsibilities.

 

[Francisco Maya]

TSMC is both a rival + partner, just like many other big names out there. Pat's move is wise: "Keep your friends close..."

 

[Francisco Maya]

Intel must be desperate.

The only desperate one I can read around here, is not Intel but some one else

 

[Portland]

TSMC is both a rival + partner, just like many other big names out there. Pat's move is wise: "Keep your friends close..."

"Pat" first name basis? move is because he needs tsmc's ecosystem and process lead to remain competitive. It not wise it's desperation. What's the difference between intel or amd.