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I think the US Government is the biggest reason. The Taiwan and Korean Government are very supportive of TSMC and Samsung. They get huge financial incentives and there is less bureaucracy. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think TSMC Fab 15 had equipment moved in after one year of construction at a cost of $1B. Intel Fab 42 in Arizona cost close to $5B and took 3 years?
Certainly needs brainstorming. Are there any government officials part of Semiwiki...it would be good to hear their perspective as well. Thanks for starting this discussion.
When Intel moved into Oregon they specifically chose to build first in Aloha, because they got tax breaks lasting decades, so that was a similar incentive to what the governments of Taiwan and Korea provided. Not so sure about limiting the red-tape though in the USA.
The people I have talked to say the biggest reason is tax and regulation. US corporation taxes are the highest in the world which pushes US investment offshore. But the biggest problem seems to be regulation. You can't build a fab in 12 months here even if you try. Look how long it has taken GF to build their fab 8 in New York and that is with tax breaks and all. And heaven help you if they build a school near your fab as happened to LSI about 15 years ago, you can't do anything without a year of discussion.
I had a friend on the board of Logitech (which is headquartered in Lausanne Switzerland). It took them one year from groundbreaking to first production to build a factor (not a silicon fab) that was, I think, 150,000 square feet. Or maybe it was meters. At the same time it had taken over two years and counting to get permission to build a second office building across the road from their headquarters. It is not a problem limited to the US. And that was with Logitech threatening to move out of town completely if they couldn't expand since they wouldn't have much choice.
Lets take an example I am a small scale vendor and decide to open a foot in overseas markets. In US i am protected by IP laws, Human Rights etc. I enter in a relationship with my overseas partner and receive assurances. The overseas organization agrees to everything to obtain intellectual property however later decided to break its contractual obligations willfully. The local courts also opine that this is a unique case and the law itself has been selectively applied in this case which is NOT the norm when considering their own citizens with the intent of protecting their own citizens.
What is the legal recourse available in that the local laws are not applied correctly or the local laws have been bent for various purposes ?
Lets take an example I am a small scale vendor and decide to open a foot in overseas markets. In US i am protected by IP laws, Human Rights etc. I enter in a relationship with my overseas partner and receive assurances. The overseas organization agrees to everything to obtain intellectual property however later decided to break its contractual obligations willfully. The local courts also opine that this is a unique case and the law itself has been selectively applied in this case which is NOT the norm when considering their own citizens with the intent of protecting their own citizens.
What is the legal recourse available in that the local laws are not applied correctly or the local laws have been bent for various purposes ?
That is a very specific example. You would need to talk to a lawyer in that location to better understand local laws and recourse. My guess is that it would be more trouble than it is worth pursuing. Vetting your foreign partners is critical of course.
That is a very specific example. You would need to talk to a lawyer in that location to better understand local laws and recourse. My guess is that it would be more trouble than it is worth pursuing. Vetting your foreign partners is critical of course.
Costs aside. A proper due diligence was undertaken and the organization decided to will fully break its contractual obligations understanding the counterparty was not in position to exert harm back.
Applying the same law to more general terms and the same may be applicable to a particular organization be it large or small. I believe every body is equal before law.
1. What if the local lawyers are prejudiced in that justice is NOT their primary motive ?
2. What if the local courts are biased for various reasons in that the locals of a particular nation have not been able to Innovate thus obtaining Intellectual Property is the primary motivation ?
3. What leverage does anybody hold from in enforcing accountability across geographies ?
It is not so much about Intellectual Property but that it is fundamentally difficult to develop respect. I was posed the following by an ENGINEER in automobile industry ..
Why should benefits of the Tesla, or Intel GPU or the Mercedez Benz automobile or the latest cancer drug be borne by colleagues in overseas locations when they have not contributed an IOTA ... or are highly negligible ?
It is a little bit more than throwing money and expecting an ROI ...
I am totally lost with this discussion. If the foreign people in Asia countries are so non-trustworthy, they steal everything from others. Why most of IC are still manufactured outside the US? Do they steal from the US too?
The whole model of manufacturing from abroad and bringing back goods into the US distorts the US supply chain. There is increasing evidence of counterfeiting from Chinese suppliers but the motto of US MNCs still remains to win in China. China today owns over 3+trillion dollars in their FOREX reserves...today more than 40% of US defense supply chain is filled with counterfeits from China. Chinese do not respect anything called IP....they increasingly steal the IP of US businesses who want to do business in China. Alongwith massive job losses which taken place in US...the threat from manufacturing from China is being shamefully ignored for greed of investors on Wall Street. Even situation in China isn't great. The workforce is exploited in companies like Foxconn...who cannot even take restroom breaks to feed the appetite of some greedy folks. There are huge nets below the tall buildings in China to stop workers from committing suicide. The whole business model which based on centralized supply chains and globalization with free trade...is taking global economy to a depression. Common sense macroeconomics teaches us that any business can sustainable only when there is a sustainable demand for their products....hence business model for a sustainable economy should boost the economic demand. Only when both supply and demand grow in proportion can free markets exist. So...whether or not countries in Asia steal the IP...The present business model is not sustainable anymore
IC manufacturing from Asia...and bring back the manufactured goods into US contributes to US trade deficits. It is a macroeconomic disaster my friend...it does not matter whether you are from China...but China is not good in its business dealings when it comes to technology business.
Not every country in Asia is like China. Bring back the manufacture back to the US is good. We all know how this mess start. Do not blame others and bad mouth others for this mess. Be a gentlemen and make some sense of your statements.
I am not bad mouthing anybody but I am being brutally honest about what is going on. of course, All blame does not go to China but the ones who deserve blame are the outside share holders on Wall Street which have pressurized UD businesses to cut costs by moving to low cost locations in Asia. well, Not only have such business practices hurt the IP of businesses but such practices have also caused a global economic problem due to uncertainty in the global economies. This is hurting the businesses in making investments and also not solving the global unemployment problem. The ones to blame for this mess are certainly the greedy investors on wall street
