Finally a Threat to Junk Patents

[Arthur Hanson]

Kyle Bass, a prominent hedge fund manager, is going after junk patents in the pharmaceutical industry that have kept drug prices sky high. If his efforts are successful, this could change the very warped US patent world and would yield significant changes in all tech sectors. Junk patents have become a huge tax and impediment to all tech. It's time for the junk patent extortion scam to be put in its grave for all the damage it has done in both cost and holding back progress. I hope his effort is successful.

 

[Daniel Payne]

I first started looking at semiconductor patents back in 1980 while at Wang Labs, and was shocked to find out that someone had actually filed a patent for the CMOS inverter circuit, one PMOS transistor and one NMOS transistor. At that exact moment I knew that our patent system was deeply flawed beyond repair when such an obvious concept could be patented.

 

[Pawan Fangaria]

Actually, if you look back the very first transistor also was patented. At that time it was a new innovation. However, patents have a limited life, that must be reviewed from time to time.

I wonder how cold junk patents extort money?

 

[Arthur Hanson]

The patent mess is but one more very sad commentary on the US government in general.

2.3 million people incarcerated, more than the police states of Russia and China combined

World's largest exporter of arms

World's largest military budget, as large as the next 20 countries combined and have not won a war in sixty years

Primary and secondary education that ranks 35 in quality (among the lowest of any modern country) at among the highest in cost

Cost of higher education and debt increasing at a staggering, unsustainable rate

Medical care that ranks 35th in quality and averages 400% higher in cost (18% of GDP and climbing)

A patent office that has become so poor that there is no reason for others to respect our patents

A social security and medicare system with 125 trillion in debt(they call it unfunded liabilities and don't count it as debt, can anyone say ENRON and they got convicted of felonies) and climbing, when our total GDP is only 17 trillion

A government work force that has separate pay, job security, pension with medical system totally superior to the people with almost no penalty for outright fraud, led alone sub par performance

The high tech sector has given us the best way of combating this with the web and social media that created the Arab spring that toppled many sub performing governments and caused massive reform in many. The social changes being wrought by the tech sector and Silicon Valley are still in their infancy. I have no doubt, the largest impact of Silicon Valley in every aspect of our lives is ahead of us, we have just seen a glimpse of things to come. This comes from the constant accelerating rate of change technology brings to everything including itself. With this great power, comes great responsibility and this should guide our actions. The current patent system reflects the Washington DC culture versus the Silicon Valley culture which needs serious patent reform so it can focus at what it does best, innovate at an ever accelerating rate.

 

[Staf_Verhaegen]

I first started looking at semiconductor patents back in 1980 while at Wang Labs, and was shocked to find out that someone had actually filed a patent for the CMOS inverter circuit, one PMOS transistor and one NMOS transistor. At that exact moment I knew that our patent system was deeply flawed beyond repair when such an obvious concept could be patented.

Although I am the last to defend the current patent system I do think that in hindsight a lot of things seem obvious that were real innovations at that time. For example if everybody is doing NMOS logic, a CMOS inverter is novel and can be considered non-obvious. I do agree with Pawan and I also often said that in fast moving industries like micro-electronics 20 years of patent lifetime is way too much.
Also one should be careful with reading patents: I think all claims are published in the text; also the ones which were not upheld. So often the ones which are upheld are more specific claims and the more general ones not as they don't pass the obviousness test.

 

[Staf_Verhaegen]

The patent mess is but one more very sad commentary on the US government in general.

...

A patent office that has become so poor that there is no reason for others to respect our patents

...

Although I am a proud inhabitant of (the old) Europe and in general I prefer the European (or should I say Belgian or Flemish) way I do think you are too harsh on your government. The patent system is broken worldwide and in my opinion it has major flaws in the setup and it's not just the patent offices that aren't doing their job.

 

[Arthur Hanson]

Staf, I feel many obvious patents have just been a race to the patent office even if they seem novel. With the massive number of people working on projects I have found many are thinking along the same lines and few things are truly innovative and many are just a race to the patent office by people with resources to afford the expense and should never have been granted. More and more many patents are more about gaming the system than true innovation. A think tank staffed by engineers and scientists could probably patent more than a productive companies under current rules. Maybe we should let the patent go to the first that actually builds a useful product? I agree in this day and age patents should vary in length for progress is accelerating at an increasing rate.

 

[Arthur Hanson]

Although I am a proud inhabitant of (the old) Europe and in general I prefer the European (or should I say Belgian or Flemish) way I do think you are too harsh on your government. The patent system is broken worldwide and in my opinion it has major flaws in the setup and it's not just the patent offices that aren't doing their job.

Most of the decline in our government has been recent. These are all very serious issues, many of which have effect world wide. I would like the US to get back to its roots in the Constitution. I feel if we don't change, we are in the very late stages of a mature empire and for most a declining empire that is best reflected in the stagnation and soon to be decline of the middle class. Our labor participation rate is at an all time low.

 

[Staf_Verhaegen]

I feel if we don't change, we are in the very late stages of a mature empire and for most a declining empire that is best reflected in the stagnation and soon to be decline of the middle class. Our labor participation rate is at an all time low.

With that I agree 100%. Looking from an Europe angle you only have the choise in America between two parties on the right. I do prefer the broader spectrum of parties in Europe and the social democratic influences.
I once made a (half)joke during a dinner when I was at a conference in America that two parties is only one party more than in China. I learned the lesson there that making jokes on politics is a good way to make enemies so I try to stay out of such discussions...

 

[ipdataminer]

Hello Daniel,

In regards to your comment:

"I first started looking at semiconductor patents back in 1980 while at Wang Labs, and was shocked to find out that someone had actually filed a patent for the CMOS inverter circuit, one PMOS transistor and one NMOS transistor. At that exact moment I knew that our patent system was deeply flawed beyond repair when such an obvious concept could be patented."

Do you have any further information on that patent application, such as whether or not the patent application was issued as you describe, and was the patent ever enforced or licensed ?

And what is your basis for characterizing the patent application as “CMOS inverter circuit, one PMOS transistor and one NMOS transistor” ? Was that in the title, the summary, the detailed specification, one of the claims? Do you know that the claims are the only enforceable part of the patent and that the title of the patent can be misleading? In the claims, do you know the huge difference between “comprising” and “consisting essentially of” ?

So, you condemned the entire patent system based on one patent application out of 100's of thousands that were filed in that one year alone ?

 

[ipdataminer]

If you think that a patent term of 20 years after the filing date is too long because everything becomes obsoleted faster than 20 years, then all fast innovators aren't using the old technology, and the patent for the 20 year old technology is irrelevant, so who would care if the patent is not yet expired? Did you know that the vast majority of patents expire after 10 years because the owners themselves don't see the patents as relevant and they decline to pay the maintenance fees on the patents, so the patents become expired at the express will of the owner.

I see a lot of half-informed opinions on patents on this forum.

Just you wait until someone steals your idea, you will feel differently. I am an investor in a company in which a company that we hoped to work with stole our basic idea.

 

[Daniel Payne]

Hello Daniel,

In regards to your comment:

"I first started looking at semiconductor patents back in 1980 while at Wang Labs, and was shocked to find out that someone had actually filed a patent for the CMOS inverter circuit, one PMOS transistor and one NMOS transistor. At that exact moment I knew that our patent system was deeply flawed beyond repair when such an obvious concept could be patented."

Do you have any further information on that patent application, such as whether or not the patent application was issued as you describe, and was the patent ever enforced or licensed ?

And what is your basis for characterizing the patent application as “CMOS inverter circuit, one PMOS transistor and one NMOS transistor” ? Was that in the title, the summary, the detailed specification, one of the claims? Do you know that the claims are the only enforceable part of the patent and that the title of the patent can be misleading? In the claims, do you know the huge difference between “comprising” and “consisting essentially of” ?

So, you condemned the entire patent system based on one patent application out of 100's of thousands that were filed in that one year alone ?

ipdataminer,

I spent an entire afternoon looking at CMOS patents in 1980 and was just shocked at how many were not novel, and not unique, but in prior-art use for many years by many companies.

An engineer named Frank Wanlass did invent and patent (# 3,356,858) the CMOS inverter circuit in 1963, however many other so-called inventors filed essentially the same circuit:

• CMOS inverter chain, #4734597
• Dynamic threshold voltage scheme for low voltage CMOS inverter, #5644266A
• CMOS inverter, #4675544A
• CMOS Inverter and standard cell using the same, EP19990112822

I'm not condemning the entire patent system, just observing that prior-art should invalidate the vast majority of issued patents since patents began, up to the present time.

I mean, just look how ridiculous it became recently when Apple was issued a design patent for a "rectangle with rounded corners". Fortunately, a judge ruled that design patent was invalid and reduced the claim from Apple against Samsung substantially.

 

[Arthur Hanson]

I have seen numerous people who think they have an original idea and it's already in use in a related field that they aren't familiar with. Many ideas and concepts can be used across multiple platforms and most of us don't have the time to study outside the platforms we use regularly. It's an honest mistake, but a mistake none the less. I'm sure this is the case with patent examiners is the current system. Modern, up to date search engines and actually using them could solve many of these problems.

 

[hkwint]

Just you wait until someone steals your idea, you will feel differently. I am an investor in a company in which a company that we hoped to work with stole our basic idea.

Did you know that you _can't_ patent an idea? Because if you could, you would have just introduced the idea of "thoughtcrime" which has to be guarded by "thoughtpolice".

You patent a product or process which is the solution to a specific technological problem.

If you are upset that somebody stole your idea, patents wouldn't have saved you.

 

[Arthur Hanson]

Ipdataminer, I have had specific designs stolen. On the last one they had the nerve to complain because the design didn't work even though they also stole the materials list. The problem was it was a rough design and parts list only suitable for me. I guess in that one case they learned theft doesn't pay. Neither was patentable, maybe they could be copyrighted?
I hope it was a critical customer that's data distribution system didn't work. You can't patent everything.

 

[Tom Simon]

My favorite example of how the patent system might out of balance was the patent that national filed on the combination of a serial UART and a FIFO. The PC16550 UART was a patented device. Thus combining two readily available devices suddenly became a patent infringement.

When I was working for an unnamed IP company that sold separate IP for a UART and a FIFO, we had to warn people that if they combined them that it might subject them to patent litigation. Of course they could apply to National for a license to use the patent.....

But seriously how could you use a UART unless you had some kind of buffer.

 

[Daniel Payne]

My favorite fanciful patent was just issued for a Space Elevator by Canadian company Thothx Technology.

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