Biden set to announce billions in chip subsidies for Intel, TSMC, etc...

[Daniel Nenni]

The Biden administration is expected to award billions of dollars in subsidies to top semiconductor companies, including Intel and Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. (TSMC), in the coming weeks to help build new factories in the United States, The Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday.

The forthcoming announcements are aimed at kick-starting manufacturing of advanced semiconductors that power smartphones, artificial intelligence and weapons systems, the WSJ reported, citing industry executives familiar with the negotiations.

The executives expect some announcements to come before U.S. President Joe Biden’s State of the Union address on March 7, the WSJ report added.

Among the likely recipients of the subsidies, Intel has projects underway in Arizona, Ohio, New Mexico and Oregon that will cost more than $43.5 billion, the Journal said.

TSMC has two plants under construction near Phoenix for a total investment of $40 billion. South Korea’s Samsung Electronics, also a contender, has a $17.3 billion project in Texas.

Micron Technology, Texas Instruments and GlobalFoundries count among other top contenders, WSJ said, citing industry executives.

The U.S. Department of Commerce, Intel, and TSMC did not immediately respond to Reuters request for comment.

In December 2023, U.S. Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo said she would make around a dozen funding awards for semiconductor chips within the next year, including multibillion-dollar announcements that could drastically reshape U.S. chip production.

The first award was announced in December, of over $35 million to a BAE Systems facility in Hampshire to produce chips for fighter planes, part of a $39 billion “Chips for America” subsidy program approved by the U.S. Congress in 2022.

U.S. to reportedly announce billions of dollars in subsidies for advanced chips

The Biden administration is expected to award billions of dollars in subsidies to top semiconductor companies in the coming weeks to help build new factories.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Daniel Nenni]

Gotta love election years. Stuff magically gets done.

 

[blueone]

Gotta love election years. Stuff magically gets done.

Too bad Congress refuses to pass an exception to the National Environmental Policy Act for fab construction. NEPA allows virtually anyone to file suit to challenge federally funded public works projects of any kind for almost any arbitrary reason why some group is offended by it. CHIPS Act funding makes a fab federally funded project. The average time from lawsuit filing to project approval is about six years, sometimes decades, so I think nothing will get magically done for a long time. If you really want to build a fab quickly you privately fund it.

National Environmental Policy Act | US EPA

NEPA requires federal agencies to determine if their proposed actions will have significant environmental effects. EPA reviews and comments on these Environmental Impact Statements (EIS) and provides public notification and access to these documents.

www.epa.gov

Implementing CHIPS: The NEPA Permitting Challenge

The NEPA review could stall CHIPS Act projects for over two years and cost firms billions, undermining the policy imperatives of the legislation. How can policymakers enable a speedy and environmentally responsible review process?

www.csis.org

 

[hist78]

Too bad Congress refuses to pass an exception to the National Environmental Policy Act for fab construction. NEPA allows virtually anyone to file suit to challenge federally funded public works projects of any kind for almost any arbitrary reason why some group is offended by it. CHIPS Act funding makes a fab federally funded project. The average time from lawsuit filing to project approval is about six years, sometimes decades, so I think nothing will get magically done for a long time. If you really want to build a fab quickly you privately fund it.

National Environmental Policy Act | US EPA

NEPA requires federal agencies to determine if their proposed actions will have significant environmental effects. EPA reviews and comments on these Environmental Impact Statements (EIS) and provides public notification and access to these documents.

www.epa.gov

Implementing CHIPS: The NEPA Permitting Challenge

The NEPA review could stall CHIPS Act projects for over two years and cost firms billions, undermining the policy imperatives of the legislation. How can policymakers enable a speedy and environmentally responsible review process?

www.csis.org

A silly thing of this situation is that despite of the rifts between Democrats and Republicans, the Senate had unanimously passed the related bill to streamline the environment review for the Chips Act. While the House Republican leadership (most of them are relatively young) is still wandering around...

 

[Barnsley]

A silly thing of this situation is that despite of the rifts between Democrats and Republicans, the Senate had unanimously passed the related bill to streamline the environment review for the Chips Act. While the House Republican leadership (most of them are relatively young) is still wandering around...

Politics more important?

 

[blueone]

Politics more important?

Exactly. A win for "the other side" is something to be avoided even at great cost.

 

[Daniel Nenni]

Too bad Congress refuses to pass an exception to the National Environmental Policy Act for fab construction. NEPA allows virtually anyone to file suit to challenge federally funded public works projects of any kind for almost any arbitrary reason why some group is offended by it. CHIPS Act funding makes a fab federally funded project. The average time from lawsuit filing to project approval is about six years, sometimes decades, so I think nothing will get magically done for a long time. If you really want to build a fab quickly you privately fund it.

Adding on fabs in AZ or OH should be fine though, right? That seems to be the plan for TSMC and Intel. Even Micron. Just keep building on existing sites. Maybe TSMC could add fabs in Washington? Plenty of water there.

TSMC’s First US Fab - Semiwiki

TSMC originally brought the pure-play foundry business to the United States in 1996 through a joint venture with customers Altera, Analog Devices, ISSI, and private investors (no government money). Altera is now part of Intel but ADI is still a top TSMC customer and enthusiastic supporter. I...

semiwiki.com

No need to break new ground where flip phone people will complain about an endangered lizard or rare insect.

 

[blueone]

Adding on fabs in AZ or OH should be fine though, right? That seems to be the plan for TSMC and Intel. Even Micron. Just keep building on existing sites. Maybe TSMC could add fabs in Washington? Plenty of water there.

TSMC’s First US Fab - Semiwiki

TSMC originally brought the pure-play foundry business to the United States in 1996 through a joint venture with customers Altera, Analog Devices, ISSI, and private investors (no government money). Altera is now part of Intel but ADI is still a top TSMC customer and enthusiastic supporter. I...

semiwiki.com

No need to break new ground where flip phone people will complain about an endangered lizard or rare insect.

You've asked a very interesting question: Do the existing fab projects from TSMC and Intel fall under NEPA? I'm not an expert on federal laws, so I asked an expert on the subject who was a federal attorney and actually has experience with NEPA projects (meaning projects which received federal funding) and the litigation regarding them.

Building on existing sites or even in existing buildings does not exempt the project from NEPA requirements. For example, the CHIPS Act was broadened to include upgrades to existing facilities, and if federal funding is used for these upgrades then someone could sue TSMC or Intel, to make up an example, about the environmental impact of using additional electrical power for EUV equipment, or for new processes using additional chemicals or gases for production. The same is true for building new facilities on the same site. That the site was previously permitted at the state and local levels has no effect on federal permitting if federal funding is targeted at the new facility.

 

[Barnsley]

Do you believe its not possible to build anything without destroying the environment?

Nothing wrong with mitigating risk no?

Adding on fabs in AZ or OH should be fine though, right? That seems to be the plan for TSMC and Intel. Even Micron. Just keep building on existing sites. Maybe TSMC could add fabs in Washington? Plenty of water there.

TSMC’s First US Fab - Semiwiki

TSMC originally brought the pure-play foundry business to the United States in 1996 through a joint venture with customers Altera, Analog Devices, ISSI, and private investors (no government money). Altera is now part of Intel but ADI is still a top TSMC customer and enthusiastic supporter. I...

semiwiki.com

No need to break new ground where flip phone people will complain about an endangered lizard or rare insects

 

[blueone]

Do you believe its not possible to build anything without destroying the environment?

Nothing wrong with mitigating risk no?

I'm not sure if you're asking me, but I think NEPA is a dumb law, is mostly used by environmental zealots who think of humans as a destructive nuisance, and by people who just don't want industrialization or infrastructure to be anywhere near where they live or their property. I wish NEPA was unique, but its evil twin is the Endangered Species Act is also misused to delay or prevent development.

 

[Barnsley]

I'm not sure if you're asking me, but I think NEPA is dumb law, is mostly used by environmental zealots who think of humans as a destructive nuisance, and by people who just don't want industrialization or infrastructure to be anywhere near where they live or their property. I wish NEPA was unique, but its evil twin is the Endangered Species Act is also misused to delay or prevent development.

I was replying to Dan.

I dunno , I just think manufacturing of anything should be done whilst trying to minimise environmental risk.

Semicon waste water/liquids for example cannot be discharged straight into the environment/water system , it needs to be treated or stored to make it less damaging.

This is the correct way no?

 

[blueone]

I was replying to Dan.

I dunno , I just think manufacturing of anything should be done whilst trying to minimise environmental risk.

I completely agree.

Semicon waste water/liquids for example cannot be discharged straight into the environment/water system , it needs to be treated or stored to make it less damaging.

This is the correct way no?

It is the correct way, but NEPA mostly fosters blocking critical development by those zealots who believe almost all human development is bad.

 

[Daniel Nenni]

I was replying to Dan.
I dunno , I just think manufacturing of anything should be done whilst trying to minimise environmental risk.
Semicon waste water/liquids for example cannot be discharged straight into the environment/water system , it needs to be treated or stored to make it less damaging.
This is the correct way no?

TSMC told me onetime that the water going out is cleaner than when it went in. Maybe Taiwan water is bad?

 

[Barnsley]

TSMC told me onetime that the water going out is cleaner than when it went in. Maybe Taiwan water is bad?

So they treat it before sending back into the system after its been through their systems and processes.

That should be the way no?

I dont see what is wrong with that.

 

[freshshine1]

TSMC told me onetime that the water going out is cleaner than when it went in. Maybe Taiwan water is bad?

I'd believe it. Tap water in Taiwan is definitely not for drinking due to the minerals and elements in them (lime dust for example in Hsinchu)

Couple years ago I heard TSMC is recycling water a lot within the fabs. Starting with the cleanest for manufacture, then trickle those down to less critical areas, then cooling and A/C. Even then the water that comes out would still be cleaner.

 

[MKWVentures]

TSMC told me onetime that the water going out is cleaner than when it went in. Maybe Taiwan water is bad?

water isnt recycled back into the fab... but 90+% of the water taken goes back into the environment or reservoir and it is cleaner that when it came out since it is purified... this is true for all fabs in all countries .... And yes farmers in Arizona still use more water than industry and residential combined. So Fabs move water around but the net impact to the water table or rivers or water supply is trivial....

 

[hist78]

water isnt recycled back into the fab... but 90+% of the water taken goes back into the environment or reservoir and it is cleaner that when it came out since it is purified... this is true for all fabs in all countries .... And yes farmers in Arizona still use more water than industry and residential combined. So Fabs move water around but the net impact to the water table or rivers or water supply is trivial....

I think it depends on which semiconductor manufacturer, the fab locations, and cost/efficiency, etc. For example TSMC's fabs in Tainan Taiwan do use recycled water in the manufacturing process.

 

[MKWVentures]

I think it depends on which semiconductor manufacturer, the fab locations, and cost/efficiency, etc. For example TSMC's fabs in Tainan Taiwan do use recycled water in the manufacturing process.

Interesting. So they use water from their own plant again? what percentage of daily water use is fresh drawn water?

 

[hist78]

Interesting. So they use water from their own plant again? what percentage of daily water use is fresh drawn water?

According to the TSMC 2022 Sustainability Report, TSMC's average process water recycling rate was 85.7%

Source: https://esg.tsmc.com/download/file/2022_sustainabilityReport/english/e-all.pdf