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Microsoft has filed suit against the US government claiming that the government is violating the Constitution in preventing Microsoft notifying thousands of customers that their emails and other documents have been requested. Specifically, "The government’s actions contravene the Fourth Amendment, which establishes the right for people and businesses to know if the government searches or seizes their property, the suit argues, and the First Amendment right to free speech."
This seems to be triggered particularly by government requests to get access to data in the cloud. Details are lacking in the report, but I’m guessing the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (ECPA) somehow views data in the cloud as data in a public space and therefore open to seizure without requiring Fourth Amendment notification. If my interpretation is correct, these government actions could put a major damper on progress in cloud-based technologies, in which case, three cheers for Microsoft resisting these actions.
That's exactly why our adversaries like Bin Laden avoided the use of computers in the cloud, and instead tried to rely upon couriers and paper communications, much harder to find or seize.
So if Microsoft gets their way, they will inform the users of the cloud, "Hey, the US Government just read all of your cloud documents. Time to hide or run."
Innocent cloud users would then have cause to sue the US Government over violation of privacy rights.
I would add: ... in the US. Seems contries like Iceland and Suisse are doing the right thing there. If US is not careful cloud will move out of the country and to non-American companies.
So if Microsoft gets their way, they will inform the users of the cloud, "Hey, the US Government just read all of your cloud documents. Time to hide or run."
So if I put my documents on a server at home it is only accessible by law enforcement after showing me the proper warrant but if I move it to my own cloud space I am supposed to let the government look at it without proper warant and me knowing it ?
It's funny, I was talking to some Homeland Security IT types a few years ago about cloud implementations. Generalizing those comments, many government agencies don't want their stuff there, but they want your stuff there.
This is a side effect of lowering the siloes between government agencies - information one agency gets for one purpose is visible and searchable to everyone else for other purposes.
I'm all for every tool to quickly search out evildoers and shift the game from metadata to actual message content. It's intriguing that technology firms are now having to become experts in constitutional law to protect the rest of us.
Don - good point on tech firms becoming part of arguments on constitutional law. In one way this is encouraging, though it is easy to see how businesses could abuse this path.
I still haven't seen a good way that we can keep some element of privacy while supporting reasonable defenses against evil-doers. Some say that privacy is an illusion - that we lost it long ago, but that's not strictly true. I am certain that everyone has done something at some point in our lives, not illegal even, just embarrassing, that they'd rather not have anyone else know. That element of privacy is an aspect of freedom, perhaps not soul-stirring, but I wouldn't want to give it up.
Oh, it's still possible to have privacy, you just have to be mostly offline and operate on cash or barter for purchases. I see a lot more of that now that I'm a ruralite - people pay power and water bills with $20s. I think as soon as we step into the digital world, it's gone.
True Don - same here in rural California. But of course I would like to go online without good guys and bad guys knowing what I'm doing, or at least I should know (per the Fourth Amendment) if the good guys are looking at my stuff. It comes back to the question of what part of my online presence should I consider private and what part should I consider public? My laptop can't be seized without a warrant, but if I happen to store stuff in the cloud as backup and/or to save space on my laptop, does that have a different status or (more reasonably) is it just a virtual extension of my laptop? Will we even be able to tell the difference in a few years? Tricky..
My laptop can't be seized without a warrant, but if I happen to store stuff in the cloud as backup and/or to save space on my laptop, does that have a different status or (more reasonably) is it just a virtual extension of my laptop? Will we even be able to tell the difference in a few years? Tricky..
To me it is not tricky, I should have the right to keep things private I want to keep private until the point a licensed guy can show me a warrant for opening it up; this independent to where I store the data.
I am proud owner of a national ID card and I don't have a problem with showing my ID to a licensed guy who has good reasons to ask me my ID. I do have big problem with states that think everything I do online should be public and accessible to them.
Little different here Staf. For example, police can perform a warrantless search of your vehicle. If you own land, they can perform a warrantless search of open fields. This is based on testing the Fourth Amendment over many years to resolve where people can and cannot reasonably expect privacy.
Little different here Staf. For example, police can perform a warrantless search of your vehicle. If you own land, they can perform a warrantless search of open fields.
You are right, no warrant is needed for everything and I also gave example of not having a problem with showing my ID. What I do have a problem is that they seem to want to enforce certain way of storing my data so they can always search at will my data and without me noticing. It's that step that is going too far; if they search my car I at least know it and I have certain rights if I feel some bounds have been crossed due to or during the search.
