Intel Reports Second-Quarter 2025 Financial Results

[Markwrob]

I think there are two possibilities. One, US government leadership do not understand that fabs need a massive research and development team behind them, and that TSMC is not putting those teams in the US, ever, as far as I can tell. Second possibility is that the US government leadership knows this, and doesn't want to deal with the reality of the situation.

Thanks blueone, this sums it up nicely. I personally feel the first applies to the current administration and quite possibly to some that came before. But I also don't think it matters which possibility is right at the end of the day. The US still has failed to act to shore up the chipmaking sector.

There once were many fabs here run by many orgs; for various reasons almost all are no more.

We as a nation do not have much long term vision, at least lately. (Did we ever, or was it more like 'right place, right time' sort of luck?) This is a huge pity, because we have enough resources to build to support a long term vision, instead of squandering so much resources and opportunities.

 

[DanX]

Check the recent TSMC law suit.
TSMC want 7/24 operation but US engineers don't want to do this.

This is the view of a Chinese news KOL Wang( based in Japan) : an Intel that refuses to work overtime can never defeat a TSMC that does.
You can choose English CC

 

[blueone]

Check the recent TSMC law suit.
TSMC want 7/24 operation but US engineers don't want to do this.

This is the view of a Chinese news KOL Wang( based in Japan) : an Intel that refuses to work overtime can never defeat a TSMC that does.
You can choose English CC

That's weird. To my knowledge all Intel fabs run 24x7x365.

 

[Barnsley]

That's weird. To my knowledge all Intel fabs run 24x7x365.

Are there any FABS in the world that do not run 24/7?

Not just Intel.

I would imagine most suppliers to FABS are running 24/7 also.

 

[blueone]

Thanks blueone, this sums it up nicely. I personally feel the first applies to the current administration and quite possibly to some that came before. But I also don't think it matters which possibility is right at the end of the day. The US still has failed to act to shore up the chipmaking sector.

One could say this about the globalization of US manufacturing overall. Who wouldn't want to manufacture where there's cheaper labor willing to do jobs people in the US resist, where environmental regulations are less onerous, where there are fewer restrictive labor laws (if any), and business taxes are lower? The US Government, and especially Congress, is very reluctant to subsidize private corporations, especially nowadays.

There once were many fabs here run by many orgs; for various reasons almost all are no more.

Cheaper costs elsewhere, availability of trained people in cheaper locations, annoying US regulations. As is so often the case, US leaders often have their collective heads in the sand, and stuck up some less pleasant place.

We as a nation do not have much long term vision, at least lately. (Did we ever, or was it more like 'right place, right time' sort of luck?) This is a huge pity, because we have enough resources to build to support a long term vision, instead of squandering so much resources and opportunities.

As an amateur student of US history, I think we are always unprepared, always caught off-guard, and then we always have to do some emergency effort that comes close to failure, and succeeds because Americans perform best when on the precipice of disaster. I could name so many examples. I bet so can you.

 

[blueone]

Perhaps you would like to explain?

My point was that fabs without the prerequisite R&D to design the fabs and the fabrication processes does not make a sustainable chip manufacturing industry.

 

[blueone]

The USA does not control the so-called rare-earth minerals. When China "squeezes DT's balls", like they did for a couple of months, DT caves, he simply has too. The Chinese prepared for this for decade, ask Japan. The USA, it's military, it's automobile industry, it's robotics industry and many other industries, like in the rest of the world, would come to a standstill within 6-12 months. After China squeezed for a couple of months, DT caved to China. China (and others) know how to "play DT".

Read this story of today, DT is so simple-minded (I always stay away from people who think/speak of themselves that they are the smartest and best in the world!!) and most of the people he hired around him are so simple, short term thinking. No trust, independent thinking and strategic/tactical competence in those people that he selects and that are willing to work under him, pure fifth-grade people:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...7/trump-deals-trade-economy?CMP=share_btn_url

I don't respond to political posts, even if I agree with them, and I don't think they belong in this forum.

 

[user nl]

My point was that fabs without the prerequisite R&D to design the fabs and the fabrication processes does not make a sustainable chip manufacturing industry.

My understanding is that the Western world is concerned that because of geopolitics access to high end chips, now produced almost completely in Taiwan, may become under threat in the future. I was somewhat surprised that someone compared running a semi-fab was something like running a (high end) "paint-shop for cars''. Some arrogance in those words I sensed.

My point was, if you think about that, regarding TSMC's fabs in USA, why can INTEL not run these fabs themselves? They have the R&D to develop the technology that should run in those fabs, they own many of those fabs themselves. But somehow they are not able to run their fabs economically competitively, not for themselves, nor for others. So, perhaps ''running a foundry-fab" is not so similar like running a "high end paint shop for cars".

I can fully understand that some Americans, especially those that have (personal, professional or emotional) ties to the USA-semi industry, feel torn about the situation around INTEL. An icon of USA innovation and leadership (of the past) is struggling. Those things happen. KODAK had its moments in history. It is not the end of the world or will be the end of your civilization/society. There has been a world, and USA-society, after KODAK disappeared from the world stage. There will be a world after INTEL restructures, one way or the other.

One thing that small countries understand much better is that they have a large world abroad that they can benefit from through collaboration. In general, collaboration builds strength, provides adaptability, resilience and diversity. But you need TRUST to collaborate.

The semi-industry has changed over the last 20 years. INTEL has a hard time adjusting to this, and now pays the price for this lack of adaptability. Perhaps PG thought, to some extend, that INTEL was still the best in the world, and perhaps he had a lifelong dream to succeed in the footsteps of his mentor AG. He did not seem to realize that you cannot just "buy yourself into being the best" by just building fabs all over the world. And that potential customers will become your real customers because of your blue logo. Running a foundry fab is something really special, ask TSMC, it is their business-model.

If you have no customers for those fabs it is just throwing money down the sink. He was perhaps too much of an enthusiastic preacher for INTEL IDM2.0, without deeply understanding the changed/changing market dynamics in the semi-world. And how running large scale fabs for large external customers is a completely different business and business-model.

Something will happen to INTEL. It will not be the end of the USA. What China will become and do in 2,3-5 years, no one knows. Let's first see how Russia and Putin survive his "special operation" in Ukraine. China watches this with great interest. It is a civilization that has survived one way or another for 5000 years. The USA in its present form some 250 years.

Having the vast majority of high-end chips needed by some US-end customers, and produced by TSMC-owned fabs in the USA is not the end of the USA civilization. Take a breath, and keep biking.....

Just my two cents.....

 

[blueone]

My understanding is that the Western world is concerned that because of geopolitics access to high end chips, now produced almost completely in Taiwan, may become under threat in the future. I was somewhat surprised that someone compared running a semi-fab was something like running a (high end) "paint-shop for cars''. Some arrogance in those words I sensed.

That was intended to be a humorous remark, mostly about how little actual value-add these US based automotive assembly plants add.

My point was, if you think about that, regarding TSMC's fabs in USA, why can INTEL not run these fabs themselves? They have the R&D to develop the technology that should run in those fabs, they own many of those fabs themselves. But somehow they are not able to run their fabs economically competitively, not for themselves, nor for others.

Are you suggesting Intel should be able to run TSMC designed and built fabs? That's ridiculous.

So, perhaps ''running a foundry-fab" is not so similar like running a "high end paint shop for cars".

As I've already said, I was making a joke about these US-based vehicle assembly plants.

I can fully understand that some Americans, especially those that have (personal, professional or emotional) ties to the USA-semi industry, feel torn about the situation around INTEL. An icon of USA innovation and leadership (of the past) is struggling. Those things happen. KODAK had its moments in history. It is not the end of the world or will be the end of your civilization/society. There has been a world, and USA-society, after KODAK disappeared from the world stage. There will be a world after INTEL restructures, one way or the other.

Thanks for the lecture on a market economy. Not.

One thing that small countries understand much better is that they have a large world abroad that they can benefit from through collaboration. In general, collaboration builds strength, provides adaptability, resilience and diversity. But you need TRUST to collaborate.

What a revelation! That never occurred to any of us in big countries.

The semi-industry has changed over the last 20 years. INTEL has a hard time adjusting to this, and now pays the price for this lack of adaptability. Perhaps PG thought, to some extend, that INTEL was still the best in the world, and perhaps he had a lifelong dream to succeed in the footsteps of his mentor AG. He did not seem to realize that you cannot just "buy yourself into being the best" by just building fabs all over the world. And that potential customers will become your real customers because of your blue logo. Running a foundry fab is something really special, ask TSMC, it is their business-model. If you have no customers for those fabs it is just throwing money down the sink. He was perhaps too much of an enthusiastic preacher for INTEL IDM2.0, without deeply understanding the changed/changing market dynamics in the semi-world. And how running large scale fabs for large external customers is a completely different business and business-model.

Idle speculation about PG. I'm amused by your comment that Pat does not seem to realize that running a foundry fab is different from an IDM fab. It is, but speculating about what he doesn't know is silly.

Something will happen to INTEL. It will not be the end of the USA. What China will become and do in 2,3-5 years, no one knows. Let's first see how Russia and Putin survive his "special operation" in Ukraine. China watches this with great interest. It is a civilization that has survived one way or another for 5000 years. The USA in its present form some 250 years.
Having the vast majority of high-end chips needed by some US-end customers, and produced by TSMC-owned fabs in the USA is not the end of the USA civilization. Take a breath, and keep biking.....

Just my two cents.....

I think I'd rather skip your two cents in the future.

 

[user nl]

What a revelation! That never occurred to any of us in big countries.

Perhaps ask your 77,284,118 countrymen if they agree with you. Your DT seems to be still learning the boundaries of his "direct line-upstairs".

Fear, in many forms, seems to have permeated deeply in USA society during the last 20-25 years or so, not just towards outsiders, but also towards your countrymen. Outsiders, who visit many weeks a year, notice this fear about the future, when talking to some of those 77,284,118 countrymen. Very different from my visits and long-stays living in the USA some 30-40 years ago. TRUST seems a rare commodity these days in the USA.

 

[user nl]

My point was, if you think about that, regarding TSMC's fabs in USA, why can INTEL not run these fabs themselves? They have the R&D to develop the technology that should run in those fabs, they own many of those fabs themselves. But somehow they are not able to run their fabs economically competitively, not for themselves, nor for others.

Are you suggesting Intel should be able to run TSMC designed and built fabs? That's ridiculous.

No I was not. I was suggesting that if (according to your "humorous" analogy) it was so easy to do (TSMC's) "print-shop" trick, making chips in their USA-located-fabs with TSMC-Taiwan-technology, why can INTEL not copy this trick in their own (INTEL owned)-fabs/"paint-shops", with their own INTEL-USA-located/developed-technology.........

Your humor resembled a little "real-men own their fabs"......

 

[ai268]

I think this is going the way of DEC, or AMD more than IBM! Not enough volume and really doesn’t seem LBT has any attachment to intel’s legacy as the keeper of Moore’s Law. He is a cold calculated venture capitalist with no experience nor prospective of the complexity of technology development nor manufacturing.

Don’t think a whale is showing up just because they know LBT, they are as cold and calculating and understand technology better than him.

Finally, someone mentions about Digital. How about Control Data, Data General, Unisys, Wang, Honeywell, NCR, Tandem, Apollo, Convex, Silicon Graphics, Sun Micro, HP, IBM and even Apple? It seems that they all went down the same path and none recovered, unfortunately.

>>> LBT, He is a cold calculated venture capitalist with no experience nor prospective of the complexity of technology development nor manufacturing.

That's exactly my point in other post. Circuit design, Cadence, is totally different from manufacturing "transistors", even both sub-fields of EE.
If LBT was from "Applied Materials", maybe that's another story.

As you mentioned it...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1949104547563196474

Those 30 (24+6) districts being recalled were all won by KMT, Pro-China, in 2024 election, but recall failed last weekend. Current legislative seat is DPP 51 vs KMT 52 and 3rd party 8+2. None of DPP, Pro-USA, seats was being recalled. Why? Because KMT can not even pass the 1st phase of recall threshold, 1% of the total voters, to recall any DPP members. Could you imagine GOP trying to recall CA governor?

BTW, I remember some people on this site saying that most people in Taiwan would support defending Taiwan against China. I seriously doubt that.

Had you served? Had you served on a desolate island, China just 3-5km away, surrounded nothing but sea and occasionally by hundreds of CCP pseudo-military fishing boats?

 

[Barnsley]

My point was that fabs without the prerequisite R&D to design the fabs and the fabrication processes does not make a sustainable chip manufacturing industry.

This is where it gets tricky for Singapore , I dont think we are the R&D site for any of the companies represented by FABS here.

When we did have our own in Chartered Semiconductor , gave up due to direct costs and sold it to Abu Dhabi Investment group under GlobalFoundries Brand!

All the FABS here , except maybe UMC 12i are 3 or 4 nodes below the best a company has to offer.

 

[hist78]

BTW, I remember some people on this site saying that most people in Taiwan would support defending Taiwan against China. I seriously doubt that.

I think you may not be very familiar with how Taiwan, the Republic of China, and its politics or how a democracy works.

People who voted for Trump doesn’t mean most of them love Putin or support Russia. Similarly, Taiwanese citizens who vote for opposition parties or against the current ruling party’s candidates or policies are not automatically pro-CCP.

Unfortunately, many people from mainland China, being accustomed to a one-party dictatorship under the CCP, often misunderstand that voting against the CCP’s adversaries does not automatically make someone a friend of the CCP.

As an independent country since 1911, the Republic of China (Taiwan) is a vibrant democracy. If the People’s Republic of China, which is 38 years younger, cannot grasp that, misjudgments like this will continue to happen

 

[hist78]

My understanding is that the Western world is concerned that because of geopolitics access to high end chips, now produced almost completely in Taiwan, may become under threat in the future. I was somewhat surprised that someone compared running a semi-fab was something like running a (high end) "paint-shop for cars''. Some arrogance in those words I sensed.

My point was, if you think about that, regarding TSMC's fabs in USA, why can INTEL not run these fabs themselves? They have the R&D to develop the technology that should run in those fabs, they own many of those fabs themselves. But somehow they are not able to run their fabs economically competitively, not for themselves, nor for others. So, perhaps ''running a foundry-fab" is not so similar like running a "high end paint shop for cars".

I can fully understand that some Americans, especially those that have (personal, professional or emotional) ties to the USA-semi industry, feel torn about the situation around INTEL. An icon of USA innovation and leadership (of the past) is struggling. Those things happen. KODAK had its moments in history. It is not the end of the world or will be the end of your civilization/society. There has been a world, and USA-society, after KODAK disappeared from the world stage. There will be a world after INTEL restructures, one way or the other.

One thing that small countries understand much better is that they have a large world abroad that they can benefit from through collaboration. In general, collaboration builds strength, provides adaptability, resilience and diversity. But you need TRUST to collaborate.

The semi-industry has changed over the last 20 years. INTEL has a hard time adjusting to this, and now pays the price for this lack of adaptability. Perhaps PG thought, to some extend, that INTEL was still the best in the world, and perhaps he had a lifelong dream to succeed in the footsteps of his mentor AG. He did not seem to realize that you cannot just "buy yourself into being the best" by just building fabs all over the world. And that potential customers will become your real customers because of your blue logo. Running a foundry fab is something really special, ask TSMC, it is their business-model.

If you have no customers for those fabs it is just throwing money down the sink. He was perhaps too much of an enthusiastic preacher for INTEL IDM2.0, without deeply understanding the changed/changing market dynamics in the semi-world. And how running large scale fabs for large external customers is a completely different business and business-model.

Something will happen to INTEL. It will not be the end of the USA. What China will become and do in 2,3-5 years, no one knows. Let's first see how Russia and Putin survive his "special operation" in Ukraine. China watches this with great interest. It is a civilization that has survived one way or another for 5000 years. The USA in its present form some 250 years.

Having the vast majority of high-end chips needed by some US-end customers, and produced by TSMC-owned fabs in the USA is not the end of the USA civilization. Take a breath, and keep biking.....

Just my two cents.....

The US government, from Trump’s first term, to Biden, and to Trump’s second term, all agrees with you.

If Intel can evolve or turn things around from its current troubles, that would be great. But if it doesn’t, is the US government just going to drop the ball and walk away?

Of course not. TSMC Arizona is the US government’s hedge against the possibility of a severely weakened or even bankrupt Intel.

 

[tomatoma]

The US government, from Trump’s first term, to Biden, and to Trump’s second term, all agrees with you.

If Intel can evolve or turn things around from its current troubles, that would be great. But if it doesn’t, is the US government just going to drop the ball and walk away?

Of course not. TSMC Arizona is the US government’s hedge against the possibility of a severely weakened or even bankrupt Intel.

This is my personal opinion

As for TSMC, it is not possible to expand the factory more easily in Taiwan due to water resources and power supply.

At least I think it's because it was convenient when trying to build a factory overseas.
In the case of the United States, water resources and electricity are at least more abundant than Taiwan.

Well, when it comes to places where it struggles, TSMC itself hasn't expanded overseas until now. Cultural differences or culture shock? It seems that you are struggling with etc.

There may be political implications for expanding into the U.S.

 

[DanX]

Check my link. It explained all.
Because for Taiwanese, TSMC is like SpaceX in the U.S.—engineers don’t refuse overtime. But to Americans, TSMC is just another crummy factory.

 

[tomatoma]

Check my link. It explained all.
Because for Taiwanese, TSMC is like SpaceX in the U.S.—engineers don’t refuse overtime. But to Americans, TSMC is just another crummy factory.

Well, it's a different culture...
There will be resistance
Considering this aspect, I wonder if Intel is better at overseas expansion...?

Even in Japan in the same East Asia region, there are some people who were a little scared of TSMC's work culture.

Well, I don't know if TSMC will continue to work that way in the future.
To be honest, it was Japan today that regretted working that way of working.

 

[XYang2023]

I think you may not be very familiar with how Taiwan, the Republic of China, and its politics or how a democracy works.

People who voted for Trump doesn’t mean most of them love Putin or support Russia. Similarly, Taiwanese citizens who vote for opposition parties or against the current ruling party’s candidates or policies are not automatically pro-CCP.

Unfortunately, many people from mainland China, being accustomed to a one-party dictatorship under the CCP, often misunderstand that voting against the CCP’s adversaries does not automatically make someone a friend of the CCP.

As an independent country since 1911, the Republic of China (Taiwan) is a vibrant democracy. If the People’s Republic of China, which is 38 years younger, cannot grasp that, misjudgments like this will continue to happen

Finally, someone mentions about Digital. How about Control Data, Data General, Unisys, Wang, Honeywell, NCR, Tandem, Apollo, Convex, Silicon Graphics, Sun Micro, HP, IBM and even Apple? It seems that they all went down the same path and none recovered, unfortunately.

>>> LBT, He is a cold calculated venture capitalist with no experience nor prospective of the complexity of technology development nor manufacturing.

That's exactly my point in other post. Circuit design, Cadence, is totally different from manufacturing "transistors", even both sub-fields of EE.
If LBT was from "Applied Materials", maybe that's another story.



Those 30 (24+6) districts being recalled were all won by KMT, Pro-China, in 2024 election, but recall failed last weekend. Current legislative seat is DPP 51 vs KMT 52 and 3rd party 8+2. None of DPP, Pro-USA, seats was being recalled. Why? Because KMT can not even pass the 1st phase of recall threshold, 1% of the total voters, to recall any DPP members. Could you imagine GOP trying to recall CA governor?


Had you served? Had you served on a desolate island, China just 3-5km away, surrounded nothing but sea and occasionally by hundreds of CCP pseudo-military fishing boats?

Please educate me—how exactly do I "not know how a democracy works"? I'm in Australia, and I fulfill my responsibilities as a member of a democratic society.

The event in Taiwan is very bizarre. No democratic country has done something like this on such a large scale. If you're claiming this represents democracy, then it only serves as a very negative example.

Secondly, did you actually read what I wrote?

I said there are people in this forum who believe the majority of people in Taiwan would support defending Taiwan against China. I said I have my doubts.

Here’s my reasoning: if that were truly the case, people would vote to remove KMT seats and push for increased defense spending. Taiwan’s current defense budget is nowhere near comparable to Israel’s—yet Taiwan faces China, not Iran.

Just look at the vote result: 25–0. What does that tell you?

Please stop claiming that "less than 50%" counts as the majority. If you said "around half the people," I might take your argument more seriously.

Lastly, the way you label people from China as illiterate only reflects your own ignorance.

 

[XYang2023]

Here’s a direct comparison of defense spending between Israel and Taiwan, using the most recent reliable data available (mostly 2024 estimates or late 2023 figures):

---

Israel – Defense Spending​

• Total Defense Budget (2024 estimate):
  ~US$25–30 billion
• % of GDP:
  ~4.5–5.5% (among the highest in the developed world)
• Conscription:
  Yes – mandatory military service for most citizens (men: ~32 months, women: ~24 months)
• External Support:
  • Receives ~US$3.8 billion/year in U.S. military aid (FMF)
  • Strong domestic arms industry (Elbit Systems, Rafael, IAI)
• Military Focus:
  • High-end air defense (e.g., Iron Dome, David’s Sling)
  • Advanced cyber, intelligence, and drone capabilities
  • Capable air force and special forces
  • Prepared for asymmetric and regional conflicts

---

Taiwan – Defense Spending​

• Total Defense Budget (2024):
  ~US$19 billion (including special funds for arms procurement)
• % of GDP:
  ~2.4–2.6% (higher than many countries but significantly lower than Israel)
• Conscription:
  Yes – reintroduced 1-year mandatory service starting 2024 (was 4 months previously)
• External Support:
  • No formal military alliances, but receives arms sales and strategic support from the U.S. (via Taiwan Relations Act)
  • No direct military aid like Israel
• Military Focus:
  • Defensive posture against PRC invasion
  • Investment in asymmetric warfare (missiles, drones, mobile systems)
  • Naval and air force modernization

---

Key Differences​

[table]
[TR]
[TH]Category[/TH]
[TH]Israel[/TH]
[TH]Taiwan[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Budget Size (USD)[/TD]
[TD]~$25–30 billion[/TD]
[TD]~$19 billion[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]% of GDP[/TD]
[TD]~5%[/TD]
[TD]~2.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]U.S. Military Aid[/TD]
[TD]~$3.8 billion/year (direct aid)[/TD]
[TD]None (only arms sales/support)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Primary Threat[/TD]
[TD]Non-state actors & regional states[/TD]
[TD]PLA invasion (existential threat)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Conscription Length[/TD]
[TD]Men: ~32 mo / Women: ~24 mo[/TD]
[TD]Men: 1 year (reinstated 2024)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Arms Industry[/TD]
[TD]Strong domestic development[/TD]
[TD]Some domestic development, reliant on U.S.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Strategic Depth[/TD]
[TD]Regional power projection (limited)[/TD]
[TD]Purely defensive, focused on homeland[/TD]
[/TR]
[/table]

---

Summary​

• Israel spends more both in absolute terms and as a share of GDP, reflecting its ongoing regional security posture and high level of military preparedness.
• Taiwan, while increasing spending in response to PRC pressure, still maintains a lower level of militarization, though it is rapidly modernizing.
• Israel enjoys a higher degree of international support and indigenous military capability, while Taiwan relies more heavily on foreign procurement and asymmetric strategy.

Would you like a visual chart or breakdown over time (e.g., last 10 years)?