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Former Intel Board members call for breakup

osnium

Active member
The vultures are circling—and America could potentially lose one of its most important manufacturing assets. After a horrendous earnings report last quarter, Qualcomm, ARM, Apollo, and probably others have been looking at how to pick the flesh off Intel’s bones.

After 30 years of holding the crown as the world’s most valuable semiconductor company, Intel is selling below book value. At today’s price, Intel is an affordable acquisition for many, even much smaller tech companies. But what happens to Intel’s factories, designers, and intellectual property is vitally important.

Intel is the only large-scale American manufacturer of advanced logic semiconductors, even if it is no longer leading at the cutting edge. During the pandemic, we learned that shortages of semiconductors can have a devastating impact on the economy. Moreover, we need to develop leading-edge capacity to stay ahead in many advanced computing and defense-related technologies, including artificial intelligence. Most potential buyers of Intel would likely focus on cost-cutting and see little value in a money-losing manufacturing subsidiary (known in the industry as a foundry). In other words, profit-seeking buyers cannot be depended upon to maintain America’s manufacturing capability.

 

The vultures are circling—and America could potentially lose one of its most important manufacturing assets. After a horrendous earnings report last quarter, Qualcomm, ARM, Apollo, and probably others have been looking at how to pick the flesh off Intel’s bones.
After 30 years of holding the crown as the world’s most valuable semiconductor company, Intel is selling below book value. At today’s price, Intel is an affordable acquisition for many, even much smaller tech companies. But what happens to Intel’s factories, designers, and intellectual property is vitally important.
Intel is the only large-scale American manufacturer of advanced logic semiconductors, even if it is no longer leading at the cutting edge. During the pandemic, we learned that shortages of semiconductors can have a devastating impact on the economy. Moreover, we need to develop leading-edge capacity to stay ahead in many advanced computing and defense-related technologies, including artificial intelligence. Most potential buyers of Intel would likely focus on cost-cutting and see little value in a money-losing manufacturing subsidiary (known in the industry as a foundry). In other words, profit-seeking buyers cannot be depended upon to maintain America’s manufacturing capability.

The objective of the Board is to provide maximum shareholder value.
If this means selling off bit by bit isnt that what they obligated to do?
Even if if it ultimately means the end of Intel?
 
Preliminary leaks are showing Arrow Lakes launch may be brutal tomorrow. Claims of low performance in games, and outright crashes and hangs due to immature software. Power consumption better but still behind AMD. Timing of this (especially after the opportunity of lackluster Zen 5) is not good for Intel.
 

The vultures are circling—and America could potentially lose one of its most important manufacturing assets. After a horrendous earnings report last quarter, Qualcomm, ARM, Apollo, and probably others have been looking at how to pick the flesh off Intel’s bones.
After 30 years of holding the crown as the world’s most valuable semiconductor company, Intel is selling below book value. At today’s price, Intel is an affordable acquisition for many, even much smaller tech companies. But what happens to Intel’s factories, designers, and intellectual property is vitally important.
Intel is the only large-scale American manufacturer of advanced logic semiconductors, even if it is no longer leading at the cutting edge. During the pandemic, we learned that shortages of semiconductors can have a devastating impact on the economy. Moreover, we need to develop leading-edge capacity to stay ahead in many advanced computing and defense-related technologies, including artificial intelligence. Most potential buyers of Intel would likely focus on cost-cutting and see little value in a money-losing manufacturing subsidiary (known in the industry as a foundry). In other words, profit-seeking buyers cannot be depended upon to maintain America’s manufacturing capability.
The objective of the Board is to provide maximum shareholder value.
If this means selling off bit by bit isnt that what they obligated to do?
Even if if it ultimately means the end of Intel?
Clearly, the former BoD are wiser than the latter.
 
Here is the Fortune article with my comments:

The vultures are circling—and America could potentially lose one of its most important manufacturing assets. After a horrendous earnings report last quarter, Qualcomm, ARM, Apollo, and probably others have been looking at how to pick the flesh off Intel’s bones.

A bit over dramatic don't you think? This is a ridiculous start to a rational discussion.

After 30 years of holding the crown as the world’s most valuable semiconductor company, Intel is selling below book value. At today’s price, Intel is an affordable acquisition for many, even much smaller tech companies. But what happens to Intel’s factories, designers, and intellectual property is vitally important.

Affordable acquisition for many? I do not agree and it would be disastrous in that the manufacturing side would not survive if left to compete head-to-head with TSMC.

Intel is the only large-scale American manufacturer of advanced logic semiconductors, even if it is no longer leading at the cutting edge. During the pandemic, we learned that shortages of semiconductors can have a devastating impact on the economy. Moreover, we need to develop leading-edge capacity to stay ahead in many advanced computing and defense-related technologies, including artificial intelligence. Most potential buyers of Intel would likely focus on cost-cutting and see little value in a money-losing manufacturing subsidiary (known in the industry as a foundry). In other words, profit-seeking buyers cannot be depended upon to maintain America’s manufacturing capability.

Again, Intel will never stay ahead of TSMC. TSMC's customer centric business model and ecosystem is unmatched. Whoever says different is sealing Intel's fate.

The entire world benefits if Intel has world-class capacity. TSMC and Intel have been competing for chip leadership for 30 years. Until seven or eight years ago, Intel was winning this battle.

Intel was winning the process leadership battle yet TSMC still thrived. How many times has Intel tried to compete in the foundry business during that time and failed?

While this never-ending competition has made the world richer and must continue, depending on a single manufacturer strategically located with its most advanced factories in Taiwan is a global risk. In semiconductors, process research and development and leading-edge manufacturing must be co-located. So TSMC will never move its most advanced technology to the U.S. It is simply too expensive, requires too much infrastructure and too many key employees would have to move. The U.S. needs Intel.

The world needs to keep Taiwan safe. There is no way Intel or Samsung can replace TSMC. TSMC is 30+ years in the making and gets stronger every year. No one, not even the US Government, has the time or resources to replace TSMC. The world does, however, have the time and resources to keep Taiwan safe. That should be the focus of a rational foundry discussion not this type of geopolitical FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt).

Intel’s management and board must take responsibility and move decisively to stem the bleeding. The actions they’ve taken to date will not suffice. Numerous Intel watchers (including ourselves) have argued for several years that it must separate its foundry/manufacturing business from its design business. An Intel foundry operation, inside Intel’s corporate structure, has little chance of success.

I do not see an ounce of foundry experience amongst these Intel watchers. If you split Intel design and manufacturing it will be the death of Intel.

Nvidia, Qualcomm, Broadcom, and others are desperate for a second manufacturing option to TSMC, but will remain hesitant as long as Intel directly competes with them. Samsung, the only other advanced manufacturer of chips, has similarly discovered that many chip designers such as Apple and Nvidia tend to avoid its foundry because Samsung is a potential competitor. Intel’s management has also failed to prove that it can effectively run a foundry. Intel offered foundry services to the industry for two decades, never building a successful business. Missed targets and deadlines and management turnover do not inspire confidence.

Desperate? Are you kidding me? Nvidia, Qualcomm, Broadcom and many others grew up with TSMC. They are family. Would they like to have capable 2nd or 3rd sourcing ability that they trusted? Of course they would but that does not exist nor will it in my life time.

Intel’s CEO, Pat Gelsinger, is a true technologist who played an important role in the company’s storied past. Today, he’s faced with a difficult decision: whether to break up the iconic company. He already announced a plan to establish Intel Foundry as an independent subsidiary inside Intel. But this doesn’t go far enough. Emotions aside, the path for the U.S. and Intel should be clear.

The path you are suggesting is a suicide mission. Look at AMD and GF which was a complete spin out versus Samsung which was a virtual spin out. The only thing they have in common is that they both went head-on against TSMC and they both failed.

Since Intel’s design business remains profitable, it would need to establish a long-term supply contract with a newly created foundry independent of Intel.

If Intel design is allowed to choose their foundry partner based on technical/business criteria they will always chose TSMC. AMD is a great example. If AMD design had a choice they would have chosen TSMC right out of the gate and never looked back.

You have to understand that a relationship with TSMC is not just about manufacturing. It is a very close partnership that leverages hundreds of customers and partners. This collective design and manufacture knowledge base took 30 years to create and is unbeatable.

Just as AMD separated its manufacturing in 2009 and launched GlobalFoundries with a long-term supply deal, the new Intel design company would need to partially underwrite the foundry’s losses and guarantee sales for several years.

That long term agreement almost killed AMD.

Intel’s design company alone cannot support an independent foundry. Yet, Intel’s manufacturing operation is the only hope for maintaining the most advanced nodes on U.S. soil. An independent foundry would offer open access to all American, Korean, Japanese, and European companies to accrete sufficient volume and ensure its commercial viability.

Intel is the world's only hope? More geopolitical nonsense.

Since this is a public good (all of Intel’s current competitors and customers, as well as U.S. and global consumers, would benefit), the U.S. government (in cooperation with allies) can and should play a pivotal role.

I agree with this. Semiconductors are critical to modern life and most importantly sovereignty. Unfortunately, sending Intel on a suicide mission is not the answer.

The CHIPS Act gives the U.S. government $39 billion in grants to revive American semiconductor manufacturing. The government has already promised (but not yet disbursed) up to $8.5 billion in grants and $11.5 billion in low-cost loans for Intel. Today, Intel threatens to become this administration's Solyndra (the solar company, which went bankrupt after getting more than $500m in government funding). This would be disastrous, both for the government and Intel. The government has the leverage to force Intel down a better path—and it must use it now.

You cannot have an industrial policy without an industry: The government should be very clear on what it is willing to finance, including Intel’s corporate structure. This means that the government should insist that design and manufacturing at Intel be severed into two truly independent companies.


Sending Intel on an impossible mission is not in the best interest of anyone except Samsung. Unless of course you have Tom Cruise leading this mission. Even then I only give it small chance of success.

Time is not on our side. It took Intel less than a decade to lose its lead—and it will take at least five years to get back in the game. The pace of change in the chip industry demands quick action by management and the government. TSMC is not slowing down. The longer we wait, the less competitive we become.

At least five years? You cannot replicate what TSMC has accomplished in 30 years in such a short amount of time. This is absurd.

To be clear Intel will never compete head-to-head with TSMC. The foundry business is no longer solely dependent on superior process technology, it takes an ecosystem for a foundry to be successful and that cannot be copy and pasted. Ecosystems are developed through years of hard work and hundreds of billions of dollars in R&D. Ecosystems are all about trust and customer/partner loyalty which cannot be bought.

The whole premise of splitting Intel design and manufacture is that IDM foundries compete with their customers, correct? Do you think that is why Samsung Foundry is not successful? Because even though they are a separate division of Samsung they are still the same company?

Wrong!

Samsung Foundry is failing because Samsung is not trusted to deliver wafers on time and with acceptable yield. Why is that you ask? Because Samsung is trying to compete head-to-head with TSMC. The same mistake GlobalFoundries made until they pivoted. There have been some great pivots in the semiconductor industry, Nvidia is the best example. I'm trying to think of a successful semiconductor manufacturing company break-up, certainly not IBM or AMD.

Bottom line: Intel needs to pivot, they do not need to break up the company. Just my opinion of course but I have 40 years experience in the semiconductor trenches, more than half of that working inside the foundry ecosystem.

 
The objective of the Board is to provide maximum shareholder value.
If this means selling off bit by bit isnt that what they obligated to do?
Even if if it ultimately means the end of Intel?
I read Shareholder value the same thing that got intel in this place
 
maintain America’s manufacturing capability.
That's America's wet dream. It doesn't matter what Trump said. The world operates on global trade. You'll win in some areas, like selling military hardware, software, fiance...etc. and lose in others, like manufacturing. The world isn't a zero-sum game
 
Clearly, the former BoD are wiser than the latter.
Isn't the situation that Intel is encountering the fault of last 20 years of Intel board members. This very well include last former BoD. https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidyoffie/details/experience/

They picked last few CEOs very well, Criag was the last one that ever have more positive than negative sides. Look how Paul and Brian performed, just terrible
1729776008711.png

If Intel design is allowed to choose their foundry partner based on technical/business criteria they will always chose TSMC. AMD is a great example. If AMD design had a choice they would have chosen TSMC right out of the gate and never looked back.

You have to understand that a relationship with TSMC is not just about manufacturing. It is a very close partnership that leverages hundreds of customers and partners. This collective design and manufacture knowledge base took 30 years to create and is unbeatable.
I don't think they should stay connected with TSMC for too long, it's expensive for Intel as a whole to spend R&D/capacity upfront payment to two or more separate foundries, unless Intel are paying less than average price. There's a reason for Intel's earning tanks during recent years. Spend much more in R&D / Capex is one of them, but also the need to reserve more capacity at TSMC that's requires a >57% profit margin at the leading edge is another issue.

They cannot prolong this relationship, because unlike AMD/Nvidia, who have been fabless for so long. They don't have foundry that is incurring fixed cost over 20~30 years time period. What Intel is now doing to its balance sheet will be in effect for at least 20 years. They just cannot afford to maintain that. The only alternative is to partner with Samsung. With the shared PDK, and outsourced and underutilized equipments (which is what takes the most of the capex), and opportunity cost. Unlike Intel, Samsung has no more reason to actually stop its samsung foundry from going public. I don't see any issue with that.

Even, they can forced Qualcomm or MediaTek to actually put enough capacity at their fab if they are now a franchisee of 18A because they have a ready-to-go PDK that isn't at the same level as TSMC but equal footing at least.

Unless they do this or a strong government policy to put things on track (but that's hard in USA thanks to balance of power), I don't see Intel nor Samsung have any more resource to invest post-2030 because everything will be settled down.
 
Isn't the situation that Intel is encountering the fault of last 20 years of Intel board members. This very well include last former BoD. https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidyoffie/details/experience/

They picked last few CEOs very well, Criag was the last one that ever have more positive than negative sides. Look how Paul and Brian performed, just terrible
View attachment 2385

I don't think they should stay connected with TSMC for too long, it's expensive for Intel as a whole to spend R&D/capacity upfront payment to two or more separate foundries, unless Intel are paying less than average price. There's a reason for Intel's earning tanks during recent years. Spend much more in R&D / Capex is one of them, but also the need to reserve more capacity at TSMC that's requires a >57% profit margin at the leading edge is another issue.

They cannot prolong this relationship, because unlike AMD/Nvidia, who have been fabless for so long. They don't have foundry that is incurring fixed cost over 20~30 years time period. What Intel is now doing to its balance sheet will be in effect for at least 20 years. They just cannot afford to maintain that. The only alternative is to partner with Samsung. With the shared PDK, and outsourced and underutilized equipments (which is what takes the most of the capex), and opportunity cost. Unlike Intel, Samsung has no more reason to actually stop its samsung foundry from going public. I don't see any issue with that.

Even, they can forced Qualcomm or MediaTek to actually put enough capacity at their fab if they are now a franchisee of 18A because they have a ready-to-go PDK that isn't at the same level as TSMC but equal footing at least.

Unless they do this or a strong government policy to put things on track (but that's hard in USA thanks to balance of power), I don't see Intel nor Samsung have any more resource to invest post-2030 because everything will be settled down.
And that's what I've been calling. Add on to that, Split doesn't have to happen at Intel, but it need to happen at Samsung because Samsung has equal if not stronger government policy due to Chaebol, better electricity supply, stronger economoy, similar work culture.

China have a strong intention to acquire Taiwan, only US or Japan may has the intention to help, but NK/SK doesn't because China+Russia+NK vs West + SK + Japan. It's a complex geopoltical issue that won't be resolved until WW3 happen.
 
And that's what I've been calling. Add on to that, Split doesn't have to happen at Intel, but it need to happen at Samsung because Samsung has equal if not stronger government policy due to Chaebol, better electricity supply, stronger economoy, similar work culture.

China have a strong intention to acquire Taiwan, only US or Japan may has the intention to help, but NK/SK doesn't because China+Russia+NK vs West + SK + Japan. It's a complex geopoltical issue that won't be resolved until WW3 happen.
The prior BoD wanted to wind down their foundries and farm out to TSMC, then came Pat...

As @Daniel Nenni stated "If Intel design is allowed to choose their foundry partner based on technical/business criteria they will always chose TSMC"
 
The prior BoD wanted to wind down their foundries and farm out to TSMC, then came Pat...

As @Daniel Nenni stated "If Intel design is allowed to choose their foundry partner based on technical/business criteria they will always chose TSMC"
Yet, with arrow lake, it earns back no reputation despite everything being running on TSMC already. Is it a real problem of Intel manufacturing side, or is it the design side being undemanding?

Intel, being Intel, and the reason that they still have 60 - 70% of overall market share when counting AMD as the only competitor is that they were able to have supply wins. The manufacturing arm, despite losing billions and billions of dollars. If they are switching to TSMC, they don't have the same level of citizenship. Do you think they will get? Everyone knows without manufacturing, Intel is dead because the solution just don't stand out. And developing a new chip takes time, even more so at Intel. Even when Intel does give up the manufacturing now or one year ago. TSMC shall know who is the bigger customer when new product comes to the market. Who has the better reputation? AMD. Who has been with TSMC the longest? AMD. Who has not bashing TSMC over the last decade? AMD still.

To answer that statement, they can't because they aren't capable, and why they aren't capable, not because they aren't talented, or maybe they are because Brian fired a bunch and then came AMD and Nvidia, and also because they don't have time.
 
Yet, with arrow lake, it earns back no reputation despite everything being running on TSMC already. Is it a real problem of Intel manufacturing side, or is it the design side being undemanding?

Intel, being Intel, and the reason that they still have 60 - 70% of overall market share when counting AMD as the only competitor is that they were able to have supply wins. The manufacturing arm, despite losing billions and billions of dollars. If they are switching to TSMC, they don't have the same level of citizenship. Do you think they will get? Everyone knows without manufacturing, Intel is dead because the solution just don't stand out. And developing a new chip takes time, even more so at Intel. Even when Intel does give up the manufacturing now or one year ago. TSMC shall know who is the bigger customer when new product comes to the market. Who has the better reputation? AMD. Who has been with TSMC the longest? AMD. Who has not bashing TSMC over the last decade? AMD still.

To answer that statement, they can't because they aren't capable, and why they aren't capable, not because they aren't talented, or maybe they are because Brian fired a bunch and then came AMD and Nvidia, and also because they don't have time.
Dropping fabrication and focusing on design, would likely improve their design proficiency.

Nearly all of TSMC's "designer ~only" clients have decent CAGR's, e.g. Nvidia, AMD, Qualcomm, Broadcom, Marvell, MPS, MediaTek, Realtek.
 
Well Arrow Lake launched as a mess.

I just watched and read several reviews, and they all basically summarize as "inconsistent performance", "slower than the previous generation in games", "power effiicency is better but not as good as Zen 5", "the price is too high", "application performance is strong but slower than 9950X", "loses to 14th generation in many benchmarks".

A few other takeaways from reviews:
- Windows 11 24H2 performance is worse than 23H2
- The scheduling may be harder on Arrow Lake since the cores are sorted 'mixed' between P and E-core (vs previously, Cores 0-7 were P-Core, and Cores 8+ were E-core)
- "Wait for software fixes", "Intel should have delayed this launch"
- Linux performance better than 14th gen worse than Zen 5
- High RAM speed support (>8000) provides decent AI/LLM performance on CPU

That's about it - it looks like even though AMD's Zen 5 was underwhelming, Intel did even worse. (I really miss Dennard Scaling nodes..)

Summary app and game performance charts from one of the friendlier to Intel reviews: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-ultra-9-285k/30.html
and power efficiency vs rivals: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-ultra-9-285k/24.html
 
Are you sure? Are you really trying?

How about "Innovator's Dilemma", for one?

Since you're being snarky, why don't you come up with one technical, engineering-related reason why I'm incorrect, and then I'll explain further.

(The Apollo article is fluffy pontification without any specific arguments or detailed case studies about how Intel's misses on mobile CPUs or GPUs actually happened and why. There are also various other examples. The main reasons I've watched Intel fail in new markets are politics and egos. And Intel isn't even the worst company example of this behavior I've experienced. On the other hand, the first product company I ever worked for, in the 1980s, was a classic example of a company mired in the Innovator's Dilemma and lost their market position due to that effect, so it's not as if I haven't experienced it myself. I know the difference between political and egotistical reasons and what Christensen was discussing.)
 
Since you're being snarky, why don't you come up with one technical, engineering-related reason why I'm incorrect, and then I'll explain further.

(The Apollo article is fluffy pontification without any specific arguments or detailed case studies about how Intel's misses on mobile CPUs or GPUs actually happened and why. There are also various other examples. The main reasons I've watched Intel fail in new markets are politics and egos. And Intel isn't even the worst company example of this behavior I've experienced. On the other hand, the first product company I ever worked for, in the 1980s, was a classic example of a company mired in the Innovator's Dilemma and lost their market position due to that effect, so it's not as if I haven't experienced it myself. I know the difference between political and egotistical reasons and what Christensen was discussing.)
I'm not being snarky, but you are obfuscating.

Innovators Dilemma may easily apply, since design can be a function of the designers environment, and an environment with or without internal fabrication constraints, are clearly different.
 
Another example, having nothing to do with fabrication.

In 2005, if Paul Otellini had convinced the board to buy Nvidia, the designers would have had a totally different environment, and likely a wider scope of talent, all of which would have improved said designers.
 
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