Pat Gelsinger 18A Update

[lefty]

quick question, "manufacturing ready" means risk production, right?

 

[hist78]

I can assure you TSMC would not reveal these types of cost numbers directly to Intel. The information Pat mentioned however is readily available through third parties. Scotten Jones does this type of cost modeling for a living (now at TechInsights). Scotten and I have compared costing numbers many times and I have found his numbers to be quite accurate. I would bet Intel got them from Scotten.

But, as I mentioned before, it is unwise to wake a sleeping giant (TSMC) and this type of speak does just that. Morris Chang may have given Intel a pass for this type of press but CC Wei will not, absolutely.

This is what Pat Gelsinger said according to the transcript:


"Yes. And we -- as we look at it, TSMC has established a market, right? Super clear. Remember, I'm a customer of TSMC. So I know exactly what their wafer costs are, what their wafer ASP is, they're presenting to their N5 customers, to their N3 customers, their budgetary for N2. We know what the target is, right, for that.

And then to my team, it's like, okay, how do I hit that target? Because I need to be able to be delivering better than their cost at that level, right? I have to be able to present to customers wherever they are, right?

If it's $10 per wafer, I have to be 10 minus per wafer that we present to customers to earn our way into the business. So we know exactly what we need to do in terms of getting our costs there, right?"

The method to acquire the information and the intent to use that information to fine tune Intel Foundry Service's competitiveness are clearly spelled out by Pat Gelsinger during this conference.

 

[Mooredaddy]

By listening to what Pat was talking, it seems to me Intel product/design division (a TSMC customer) is sharing confidential TSMC information, such as pricing, with Intel Foundry Service (a TSMC competitor).

TSMC probably won't sue Intel for this. But in the long run it will hurt Intel greatly. The trust and secrecy kept between foundries and fabless companies is part of the reasons why TSMC, Apple, Qualcomm, Nvidia, AMD, Broadcom, and Mediatek are prosperous.

On the other hand, potential IFS customers will be very nervous about how much confidential information IFS will casually leak to Intel product division.

As a TSMC shareholder I was kind of shocked to hear Pat say this so flippantly. Really looking forward to C.C crushing this cocky worm

 

[Daniel Nenni]

quick question, "manufacturing ready" means risk production, right?

To some people it is risk but to most it is production ready yield. For TSMC, Apple is the start of production which is usually 6-9 months before the iProduct launch. The PDK and yield is locked in ready to go.

 

[VCT]

Everyone need more production quantity to advance the learning curve for advanced nodes.
Intel get Qualcomm in 18A means Samsung will loss production quantity to speed up the learning curve.
The vice versa may happen to Intel.

 

[Daniel Nenni]

Everyone need more production quantity to advance the learning curve for advanced nodes.
Intel get Qualcomm in 18A means Samsung will loss production quantity to speed up the learning curve.
The vice versa may happen to Intel.

Qualcomm is at TSMC. Samsung does not have a big customer at 3nm.