China has spent billions of dollars building far too many data centers for AI and compute - could it lead to a huge market crash?
- Thread starter Barnsley
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Until the jobs disappear. Almost half the factories for gas powered cars in China, all partially subsidized by local municipalities, will close in the period from 2022 to 2025.
I would say China's strategy in the automotive industry paid off. China would not have been able to develop (and subsequently dominate) it's EV industry if it hadn't developed the workforce in manufacturing ICE cars first. When a ICE car factory, which is probably a JV with a US company and all the associated IP and knowhow is from the US, Germany, and Japan, is replaced with an EV factory that's fully Chinese, it's a win for China.
Yes there are domestic casualties along the way, but the biggest casualties are GM, Mercedes, Honda, ect and China has become the worlds biggest auto exporter.
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Seems like the article basically says China built a ton of AI data centers that are sitting empty right now, but they’re not giving up on their AI dreams.
All this extra capacity probably won’t slow down the AI server market much.
Europe, China, the U.S., big tech companies, are all racing to build the ultimate AI, like the kind that thinks and interacts like a human.
They’re throwing so much money and energy at it that these empty centers will probably get used up eventually as the demand keeps growing. It may seem messy now, but the push for super-smart AI is too big to stop.
Nonsense.
China’s rapacious export-driven growth has planted the seeds of its own destruction, by forcing premature deindustrialization throughout the developing world. Most of the rest of the developing world has been indelibly harmed by Chinese exports through decimation of their own paths to higher income via manufacturing. What happens when these countries, plus the US and EU dial down Chinese imports.
The Long, Slow Death of Global Development - American Affairs Journal
Most emerging markets have not found an engine of durable growth comparable to manufacturing—most have indeed grown over the last few decades, but dependence on services and commodities exports has not made them rich. Thus most “developing” countries—we are skeptical of that euphemistic...
americanaffairsjournal.org
We’re starting to live in a world where export-driven manufacturing growth is a mistake.
China’s rapacious export-driven growth has planted the seeds of its own destruction, by forcing premature deindustrialization throughout the developing world. Most of the rest of the developing world has been indelibly harmed by Chinese exports through decimation of their own paths to higher income via manufacturing. What happens when these countries, plus the US and EU dial down Chinese imports.
The Long, Slow Death of Global Development - American Affairs Journal
Most emerging markets have not found an engine of durable growth comparable to manufacturing—most have indeed grown over the last few decades, but dependence on services and commodities exports has not made them rich. Thus most “developing” countries—we are skeptical of that euphemistic...
We’re starting to live in a world where export-driven manufacturing growth is a mistake.
Hoping Mr Trump can keep up his promise and his China tariffs, forcing and purging Chinese cheap goods out of our system.
Consequently, the relentless Chinese cheap goods (they have to keep making them) will flood the rest of the world (ROW), which not only will decimate ROW's chance in developing their own manufacturing industries and improved economies, but also make the ROW poorer because of lack of employment.
Within 2 years, it will be a war of the world vs. China, at least economically.
It's a very universal move for electronics OEMs. Release their previously high-end models usually sold to Western brands at lower price to third world buyers.
I don't know about that，I don't think the experience of ICE car manufacturing is relevant in EV manufacturing
If Chinese EV development benefits from ICE car JV with Western/Japanese companies，then why is that the same Western/Japanese companies are struggling in EV development？Given that they have far more ICE experiences than China
Building EVs is a far lower technology barriers to enter market.
On the mechanical side, PRC cars are still far, far behind Japanese, Germans, and even French.
Underneath the modern panelling, usually a very very old licensed platform from US, or European car maker stuffed with electric powertrain.
Is that the reason why traditional auto manufacturers cannot make good EV？Because it's too easy？
EU is trying to get Chinese EV manufacturers to setup JV with European manufacturers in Europe，and ask tech transfer from Chinese EV manufacturers. Why would they need tech transfer if EV is so “simple” to make？
Europe/American/Japanese machinery makers are facing stiff competition from China，and their market share is declining day by day. That is the reflection of the increasing recognition of Chinese mechanical system world wide
From Partner to Rival: Understanding China's Technological Rise through Patent Data
A new measure of patent similarity shows China shifting its international patents toward technology-intensive industries traditionally dominated by developed nations.
www.stlouisfed.org
Never heard of any Chinese EV uses “very very old licensed platform from US, or European car maker”，BYD’s famous DMI platform is self developed
They do make good EVs. They just don't make them as cheaply as the Chinese brands. Since I've never seen an actual Chinese EV, I can't judge their quality. I can say definitively that Teslas are not built to the quality level (as in fit, finish, and interior design and implementation) as any traditional US or European manufacturer at similar price points.
I haven't heard about these JVs. Do you have references?
The EU manufacturers seem to produce excellent EVs (VW-Audi-Porsche, MB, and BMW), but they do platform sharing with ICE vehicles, and the Chinese and Tesla don't. That makes the EU EVs (and some US EVs) more expensive to manufacture, weigh more, and be much less optimized for electric propulsion than I see with Teslas.
You mean their market share is declining in China. I wonder how much of that decline is due to lower prices and nationalism?
Me either.
Up until very recently, most Chinese electric cars were ICE car bodies stuffed with electric parts, even, if that car had no corresponding ICE model being manufactured by that factory
Only recent the purpose made EV bodies became somewhat common for high end, low volume production models.
One of the reason is simply because Chinese auto brands have more cash than European car brands.