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Taiwan Semiconductor Expected to Announce Arizona Factory as soon as Friday per WSJ

hskuo

Active member
As HiSilicon(Huawei) is restricted to put order of 5/7nm wafers in tsmc, it will be quite interesting to see who will fill this 20kwspm shortage? Apple, AMD, Nvidia, Qualcomm, Xilnix, or intel? The big game just started and I am eager to see the players join this game soon.
 

Portland

Active member
As HiSilicon(Huawei) is restricted to put order of 5/7nm wafers in tsmc, it will be quite interesting to see who will fill this 20kwspm shortage? Apple, AMD, Nvidia, Qualcomm, Xilnix, or intel? The big game just started and I am eager to see the players join this game soon.

Mediatek
 

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
As HiSilicon(Huawei) is restricted to put order of 5/7nm wafers in tsmc, it will be quite interesting to see who will fill this 20kwspm shortage? Apple, AMD, Nvidia, Qualcomm, Xilnix, or intel? The big game just started and I am eager to see the players join this game soon.

What would stop TSMC from building a 5/3nm fab in China? They have (2) 12nm fabs there already with room for more. Can the US Government really restrict sales from a TSMC China subsidiary with manufacturing in China? Huawei can write some really big checks.
 

hskuo

Active member
What would stop TSMC from building a 5/3nm fab in China? They have (2) 12nm fabs there already with room for more. Can the US Government really restrict sales from a TSMC China subsidiary with manufacturing in China? Huawei can write some really big checks.
I believe no EUV available will stop tsmc from building 5nm fab in China by 2024. Netherlands government just restricted 1 EUV tool order from SMIC. tsmc has two fabs in China, Fab10(8") and Fab16(12" 16/12nm, 20wspm) to fulfill some requirements. Rumor said Huawei wrote a $700m check for urgent order but tsmc can not accept it due to potential restriction conflict. Thucydides trap game started. What will be next?
 

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
As far as I know, Mediatek was not technology early adopter before. They used to be early adopter of N-1 to enjoy process maturity benefit.

Not true anymore. Mediatek makes leading edge SoCs in partnership with TSMC. In fact, Mediatek was one of the only SoC companies to use TSMC 10mm along with Apple. I know Mediatek taped out at 7nm and the internal IP folks were working on 5nm libraries late last year. It takes Mediatek longer to get leading edge chips out due to their tight budgets but that is an important part of being a fabless chip company versus system company. Those systems companies can write REALLY big checks.
 

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
I believe no EUV available will stop tsmc from building 5nm fab in China by 2024. Netherlands government just restricted 1 EUV tool order from SMIC. tsmc has two fabs in China, Fab10(8") and Fab16(12" 16/12nm, 20wspm) to fulfill some requirements. Rumor said Huawei wrote a $700m check for urgent order but tsmc can not accept it due to potential restriction conflict. Thucydides trap game started. What will be next?

Fab 16 in China is actually two fabs with a total of 40WPM.
 

hskuo

Active member
Not true anymore. Mediatek makes leading edge SoCs in partnership with TSMC. In fact, Mediatek was one of the only SoC companies to use TSMC 10mm along with Apple. I know Mediatek taped out at 7nm and the internal IP folks were working on 5nm libraries late last year. It takes Mediatek longer to get leading edge chips out due to their tight budgets but that is an important part of being a fabless chip company versus system company. Those systems companies can write REALLY big checks.
When I saw the " tight budgets", I would believe it is a excuse for some reason behind. MTK do early " engage" but not early adopt(HVM) with foundry. As we can see Dimensity 1000 is a 7nm product but not using leading EUV technology. Will we see MTK early adopt 5nm/6nm this year?
 

Portland

Active member
When I saw the " tight budgets", I would believe it is a excuse for some reason behind. MTK do early " engage" but not early adopt(HVM) with foundry. As we can see Dimensity 1000 is a 7nm product but not using leading EUV technology. Will we see MTK early adopt 5nm/6nm this year?

A lot of the work has been pushed to 2021 in the new normal.

In terms of iot and telecommunications mediatek is doing a lot right. I really like their stuff.
 

Portland

Active member
This is going to be a long journey.........


Having more of the economy in manufacturing and less in the service industry would be better for the economy and slow the spread of the pandemic. In a better world this would be great.

It's a crazy world. I just saw chiportal.co.il website.
 

Portland

Active member
When I saw the " tight budgets", I would believe it is a excuse for some reason behind. MTK do early " engage" but not early adopt(HVM) with foundry. As we can see Dimensity 1000 is a 7nm product but not using leading EUV technology. Will we see MTK early adopt 5nm/6nm this year?

The way the Lenovo duet is selling we should see more coming from mediatek.
 

peter

Member
What would stop TSMC from building a 5/3nm fab in China? They have (2) 12nm fabs there already with room for more. Can the US Government really restrict sales from a TSMC China subsidiary with manufacturing in China? Huawei can write some really big checks.

There was a law that prohibited Taiwanese companies from building leading edge process fabs in China, I can't recall the specifics but it had to be lagging two or three process nodes to be green lit by their government. I don't know if it is still in effect and can't recall if it was specifically targeted towards China or applied towards any fabs built outside of Taiwan. Then again, I suppose even if it wasn't directed towards a fab built in the US, if this fab won't be putting out anything until end of 2023, it might already be considered two nodes behind their leading edge and perhaps the Chinese could coerce them to do that. I guess the question comes down to timeframe if that law is indeed still in effect, they could build a 5nm fab in China years in the future as long as it doesn't conflict with their laws!
 

hskuo

Active member
There was a law that prohibited Taiwanese companies from building leading edge process fabs in China, I can't recall the specifics but it had to be lagging two or three process nodes to be green lit by their government. I don't know if it is still in effect and can't recall if it was specifically targeted towards China or applied towards any fabs built outside of Taiwan. Then again, I suppose even if it wasn't directed towards a fab built in the US, if this fab won't be putting out anything until end of 2023, it might already be considered two nodes behind their leading edge and perhaps the Chinese could coerce them to do that. I guess the question comes down to timeframe if that law is indeed still in effect, they could build a 5nm fab in China years in the future as long as it doesn't conflict with their laws!
It is "The Wassenaar Arrangement on Export Controls for Conventional Arms and Dual-Use Good and Technologies" which is still valid for semiconductor technologies exported to China.
 

peter

Member
It is "The Wassenaar Arrangement on Export Controls for Conventional Arms and Dual-Use Good and Technologies" which is still valid for semiconductor technologies exported to China.
I thought it was separate from that as Taiwan's not part of the Wassenaar Arrangement (which only mentions 45nm as the threshold) although I can't find the exact source at the moment!
 

hskuo

Active member
I thought it was separate from that as Taiwan's not part of the Wassenaar Arrangement (which only mentions 45nm as the threshold) although I can't find the exact source at the moment!
You are right: Taiwan is not part of the Wassenaar Arrangement but Taiwan Government set WA as guideline which need to be followed.

經濟部 公告
中華民國96年11月20日
經貿字第09604605500號

主旨:
公告修正「戰略性高科技貨品種類、特定戰略性高科技貨品種類及輸出管制地區」之戰略性高科技貨品輸出管制清單「瓦聖那協議清單」及「防止擴散清單」項目(後者包括:飛彈技術管制清單、澳洲集團管制清單及核子供應國集團管制清單),並自即日生效。


依據:貿易法第十三條第三項。


公告事項:
公告修正之戰略性高科技貨品輸出管制清單請至本部國際貿易局網站之「貿易服務>貨品輸出入規定>戰略性高科技貨品輸出入管理>貨品查詢>戰略性高科技貨品輸出管制清單」下載,國際貿易局網址:http://www.trade.gov.tw


部長 陳瑞隆
 
前言
我國自1995年7月起開始實施「高科技貨品出口管制制度」,管制之範圍包括工業用途、軍事用途及原子能相關貨品與技術項目中符合管制標準者。其中,管制清單之軍商兩用貨品及技術項目(dual-use goods and technologies)之中文版,係由本局委託台灣經濟研究院依據「多邊出口管制聯合協調委員會(Coordinating Committee for Multilateral Export Controls;簡稱COCOM)」1994年3月之管制清單版本翻譯而成。
COCOM已於1996年停止運作,並另成立「瓦聖那協定(The Wassenaar Arrangement on Export Controls for Conventional Arms and Dual-Use Goods and Technologies;簡稱The Wassenaar Arrangement或WA)」接管國際間高科技貨品及技術之出口管制清單編輯與增修事宜。我國為配合全球高科技貨品及技術出口管制機構與管制項目之調整,特將執行多年之COCOM管制清單轉換成瓦聖那協定管制清單,該清單中之軍商兩用貨品及技術部分仍由本局負責編修與審議,因該項工作具高度專業性,工作量龐大,特委請本部技術處協助,由財團法人工業技術研究院執行「高科技貨品管制相關措施之研究暨鑑定工作計劃」,並在計畫中將軍商兩用貨品及技術清單之翻譯與審查工作列入分項計畫,於1997年4月完成管制清單中文版本,以作為本部貿易局管制相關商品出口之依據。
由於上項國際間出口管制貨品及技術清單之內容每年都會進行增修,本局特針對瓦聖那協定於2005年12月提出之軍商兩用貨品及技術清單增修內容進行後續翻譯與專家審查,以做為國內廠商與政府相關單位之參考。對於專家群之協助與付出,在此特致謝忱,敬祈各界賜教指正。

經濟部工業局 民國96年7月


國際貿易局網址:http://www.trade.gov.tw
經  濟  部:http://www.moea.gov.tw

資料來源:經濟部
 
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