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Intel pressures the U.S. government to help subsidize chip manufacturing

prime007

Active member
Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger is putting the pressure on the U.S. government to help subsidize chip manufacturing, insisting the current reliance on plants in Taiwan and Korea as "geopolitically unstable."

Full disclosure: I'm a TSMC shareholder and agree that the US needs fabs to be self-reliant for our national security. Where I will disagree with Pat is his view that US subsidies should flow only (or primary) to Intel.
 

Piefkee

New member
"Yes, but: Even $52 billion is just a down payment on what will be needed over the next several years for Intel and the U.S. to catch up. "I believe there will need to be a CHIPS Act 2, maybe a CHIPS Act 3 to fully realize this moonshot," Gelsinger said."....

Pat Gelsingers discribes the plan for "unquestioned leadership" as "Moonshots"? If i would be a intel shareholder i would run, run fast.
 

count

Active member
"Yes, but: Even $52 billion is just a down payment on what will be needed over the next several years for Intel and the U.S. to catch up. "I believe there will need to be a CHIPS Act 2, maybe a CHIPS Act 3 to fully realize this moonshot," Gelsinger said."....

Pat Gelsingers discribes the plan for "unquestioned leadership" as "Moonshots"? If i would be a intel shareholder i would run, run fast.
Not even unquestioned leadership - it's a moonshot requiring $52b in government subsidies just to catch up. That's probably close to what Intel has spent on buybacks over the last decade.
 
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Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
TSMC was smart in building a fab complex in AZ and hopefully Japan. Nobody can build fabs better than TSMC, absolutely:


Conclusion
The bottom line to all this is the cost for TSMC to make wafers in the US is only 7% higher than Taiwan if they built the same size fab complex in the US as what they have in Taiwan. Because they are building a smaller Fab complex the cost will be 17% higher but that is due to TSMC’s decision to build a smaller fab, at least initially.

I do want to point out this doesn’t mean the US is not at a bigger cost disadvantage versus any other country. India has reportedly discussed providing 50% of the cost of a fab as part of an attempt to get Taiwanese companies to set up a fab in India. At least in the past the national and regional governments in China have offered large incentives. Israel has also provided significant incentives to Intel in the past. But under current conditions a US fab is only 7% more expensive than a fab in Taiwan if all factors other than the location are the same.


If India is willing to put up 50% of the cost I see TSMC building a massive fab there as well. The funny thing is that Globalfoundries started this whole global foundry thing but was not able to capitalize on it. Bad timing and execution for sure but a great business model that paved the way for TSMC.
 

Portland

Active member
I read the post about chiplets. There heterogeneous with ip from several different companies. This will favor tsmc that has the process lead. He mentioned google, apple, microsoft, Amazon but forgot mediatek beating Intel and also that intel has to own their ip for their chiplets. I don't think Intel as is has much of a future.
 

hist78

Well-known member

I believe Intel CEO Mr. Gelsinger is putting too much attention and energy on the wrong places. Eventually Intel can get some taxpayers' money as they always do but the major issue is can Intel deliver? At the end of day, both Intel's commercial customers and government customers (DoD, DoE etc.) need real products. This is why DoD decided to subside TSMC to build a fab in Arizona in the first place.

To be angry on the Wall Street, to pressure the government for more money, to attack your own customers such as Apple, or to keep telling the world that your major supplier TSMC is not reliable enough are not the right way to move Intel forward.
 
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Portland

Active member
Intel makes cpus and tsmc makes chiplets. Tsmc has a process lead as well. Tsmc record for working with other corporations and their ip's is amazing, Intel's is non-existent.
 

count

Active member
He's also blaming the guys that came before him.


Now granted, Krzanich was a complete disaster, but Bob Swan was finally starting to make the right decision to make Intel fabless, and in reversing that decision Gelsinger is also going to be a failure. He's saying "I have a technical background, those other guys didn't", but I doubt he has done any serious technical work for 20-30 years so it's kind of a moot point. He's no Lisa Su, that's for sure. I predict in 5 years AMD will have a larger market cap than Intel.
 

VCT

Member
Intel is making billions of dollar every year. It's not like GM and Ford in 2008. The U.S. government should invest those money to improve health care system to make them more affordable.
 

hist78

Well-known member
He's also blaming the guys that came before him.


Now granted, Krzanich was a complete disaster, but Bob Swan was finally starting to make the right decision to make Intel fabless, and in reversing that decision Gelsinger is also going to be a failure. He's saying "I have a technical background, those other guys didn't", but I doubt he has done any serious technical work for 20-30 years so it's kind of a moot point. He's no Lisa Su, that's for sure. I predict in 5 years AMD will have a larger market cap than Intel.
Blaming the "previous guys" is the standard practice for politicians, plumbers, and IT contractors. But this type of fingerprinting should not happen at a major semmiconductor company like Intel. Pat probably thinks that blaming those predecessors can get him some more credibility. But he is actually hurting Intel's reputation and credibility.
 
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prime007

Active member
Well...it looks like Intel is going to be successful in getting one of the European countries to help foot the bill.
Rumor is that Rome is offering a deal worth more than 4 billion euro ($4.7 billion) and could potentially reach around 8 billion euros! WOW! 😲
 
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