Gamers Nexus has a "movie" coming re: Nvidia GPU smuggling into China

[Paul2]

Any insanity after WW2 (which was already insane) was probably due to a combination of political and economic conisderations

Colonies were a net economic loss for all European states after WW2, including India for the UK.

I would draw a parallel to how after the resounding victory in the cold war, the West went on to squander it all in just a decade.

Bombing bedouins in the desert at a huge net economic loss held France back for a decade, and its misadventure in Indochina held it for another one.

Bombing bedouins was seen as a possibly winnable, and profitable politically (but not economically) war, in comparison to fighting communists, who already had a formidable army, and were a real existential threat.

Therefore the folly was the choice of a small, "winnable" war against an unreal enemy, rather than against a real existential threat.

Similarly, the fight for Belgian, Dutch, and Spanish colonies was a choice of "useless, but winnable" wars abroad, which would pump up ratings, over the survival necessity, which was the preparation for war on home soil.

 

[samwilde]

They did not develop any industries except ones needed to make tanks. They were people of extremely one-dimensional thinking: what do you need to win a war? Weapons. What do you need to make weapons? Steel. How much? As much as physically possible.
...
They were realistically expecting a victory, but they weren't realistically expecting a transistor. And they didn't because they didn't know what transistor is, and therefore did not realise what it can do, until it was too late. And they did not notice the transistor in time, and what it can do because they had no need for radio, videogames, and entertainment.

You would be wrong. The Soviets put a huge emphasis on advanced radar systems and radio. Even with regards to computers their first were built still in Stalin's time and were used among other things to speed up simulations for atomic bombs.

Strela computer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The problem is they never were able to make microchips at the yield the West could in the late 1970s. This meant they were used for niche applications. The situation changed somewhat in the mid 1980s when personal computers became more available.

Electronika BK - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But they were still behind in process and yield.

 

[Paul2]

You would be wrong. The Soviets put a huge emphasis on advanced radar systems and radio. Even with regards to computers their first were built still in Stalin's time and were used among other things to speed up simulations for atomic bombs.

Strela computer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But this proves the point of them being very "linear". They built a purpose made military computer with an explicit set of tasks in mind.

While first big computers were military in the West too, their civilian applications eclipsed military ones.

 

[Xebec]

Movie posted:

It's 3.5 hours long(!) but very thorough. I've only listened to about 40 minutes but it starts with a solid refresher on how the US has changed it's export restrictions over time, how Nvidia is affected etc. There are even quotes from (former) US President Obama (2008-2016) on the topic of export controls around chips.

The video says that in China, when asked about Nvidias position on all of this the saying is "one eye open, one eye closed".. i.e. they know this is going on, and are looking the other way.

"There is no interest in snuggling AMD or Intel GPUs" comes up as well.

 

[DanX]

The video says that in China, when asked about Nvidias position on all of this the saying is "one eye open, one eye closed".. i.e. they know this is going on, and are looking the other way.

"There is no interest in snuggling AMD or Intel GPUs" comes up as well.

Not only but also.
This is a chinese meme.

Not only China will continue to reiterate the ban on smuggling.
But also publicizing patriotic capitalists for breaking through the blockade of foreign forces to purchase urgently needed materials.
The renowned patriotic HK businessman Fok Ying Tung.

 

[Paul2]

Movie posted:

It's 3.5 hours long(!) but very thorough. I've only listened to about 40 minutes but it starts with a solid refresher on how the US has changed it's export restrictions over time, how Nvidia is affected etc. There are even quotes from (former) US President Obama (2008-2016) on the topic of export controls around chips.

The video says that in China, when asked about Nvidias position on all of this the saying is "one eye open, one eye closed".. i.e. they know this is going on, and are looking the other way.

"There is no interest in snuggling AMD or Intel GPUs" comes up as well.

Yes, it was the king's new clothes all the way. Nvidia still assembles videocards in China, and allows its ODM to completely freely get its share of GPUs as a tribute, with nVidia's eyes wide open.

Imagine, if Philips never came to China, and never introduced the modern semiconductor technology there. It would have been completely impossible for China to reverse engineer semicon manufacturing, without at least a glimpse by a mainland national of how the contemporary semicon industry looks like.

And without that, the satellites, and the guidance technology would've been completely off limits to the mainland, and Russia. No Shahed drones, no ICBMs, no ballistic missiles with more accuracy than a CEP of 1000 meters.

The West has truly sold its own noose to the communists.

 

[DanX]

Yes, it was the king's new clothes all the way. Nvidia still assembles videocards in China, and allows its ODM to completely freely get its share of GPUs as a tribute, with nVidia's eyes wide open.

Imagine, if Philips never came to China, and never introduced the modern semiconductor technology there. It would have been completely impossible for China to reverse engineer semicon manufacturing, without at least a glimpse by a mainland national of how the contemporary semicon looks like.

And without that, the satellites, and the guidance technology would've been completely off limits to the mainland, and Russia. No Shahed drones, no ICBMs, no ballistic missiles with more accuracy than a CEP of 1000 meters.

The West has truly sold its own noose to the communists.

You have no understanding of the real world.
Who brought RISC-V, GPU, and AI to China?
Who brought quantum computing?

I have a reverse design company myself.
Everyone is welcomed to use it. (This is an ad)

Who brought RISC-V, GPU, and AI to China?

 

[Paul2]

Movie posted:

It's 3.5 hours long(!) but very thorough. I've only listened to about 40 minutes but it starts with a solid refresher on how the US has changed it's export restrictions over time, how Nvidia is affected etc. There are even quotes from (former) US President Obama (2008-2016) on the topic of export controls around chips.

The video says that in China, when asked about Nvidias position on all of this the saying is "one eye open, one eye closed".. i.e. they know this is going on, and are looking the other way.

"There is no interest in snuggling AMD or Intel GPUs" comes up as well.

On the other side, I am really impressed how his Mandarin has improved in just a year.

As many VLSI people know, the documentation only in Chinese is all, but norm now.

 

[Brady]

Bloomberg made a DMCA takedown on this video over editorial video of the President’s speech.

 

[siliconbruh999]

Wait wut

 

[tooLongInEDA]

Movie posted:

It's 3.5 hours long(!) but very thorough. I've only listened to about 40 minutes but it starts with a solid refresher on how the US has changed it's export restrictions over time, how Nvidia is affected etc. There are even quotes from (former) US President Obama (2008-2016) on the topic of export controls around chips.

The video says that in China, when asked about Nvidias position on all of this the saying is "one eye open, one eye closed".. i.e. they know this is going on, and are looking the other way.

"There is no interest in snuggling AMD or Intel GPUs" comes up as well.

I'm about half way through (my son's insisting we watch this).

It's very well done and really interesting. In fact, it's like investigative journalism used to be on TV and in newspapers 30+ years ago. You really get a sense of how complex this situation is and just how difficult it is to ban these products - the reported has little difficulty buying a banned nVidia 5090 in China for slightly less than the US retail price. I can't help feeling some sneaking admiration for the ingenuity and persistence of [some of] the people working around this situation - their skills might be better used elsewhere, but there probably are legitimate researchers in Hong Kong universities (the film starts with this example) doing useful work that are being held back by all this.

 

[Xebec]

Bloomberg made a DMCA takedown on this video over editorial video of the President’s speech.

This is ridiculous... The taken down video includes only commentary from the US President, and nothing else from Bloomberg.

Archive org to the rescue .

 

[tooLongInEDA]

My son's reported an update (below).

The original film (the half I got to see before the takedown) was very well-balanced reporting and resisted any temptation to over-simplify this complex story into good guys and bad guys.

Well, Bloomberg have decided to change all that and decisively claim the "bad guys" crown here. And they were't even involved in the original story ! Whoever runs Bloomberg PR should hang their heads in shame (though I suspect they just don't care).

If Bloomberg do the sensible thing, the video could be back up in around 10 working days.

 

[DanX]

I'm about half way through (my son's insisting we watch this).

It's very well done and really interesting. In fact, it's like investigative journalism used to be on TV and in newspapers 30+ years ago. You really get a sense of how complex this situation is and just how difficult it is to ban these products - the reported has little difficulty buying a banned nVidia 5090 in China for slightly less than the US retail price. I can't help feeling some sneaking admiration for the ingenuity and persistence of [some of] the people working around this situation - their skills might be better used elsewhere, but there probably are legitimate researchers in Hong Kong universities (the film starts with this example) doing useful work that are being held back by all this.

Will watch it.
Why 5090?
A100, H100 or B100?

 

[Xebec]

Will watch it.
Why 5090?
A100, H100 or B100?

5090 is one of the 'banned for export' GPUs; Nvidia released an updated version 5090D*, which also became banned -- now there is a 5090DD to work around those restrictions. There are discussions on the H20 and other professional models in places too.

The video does a pretty good job explaining the changing US regulations around what's allowed for export, starting with the Obama administration. (As you would expect - US lawmakwers aren't familiar with which what speciifc specs makes a card good at AI training or inference. Then later Jensen had a .. paid dinner with Trump and rules changed again). Definitely at least watch the opening sections explaining the history of the sanctions over time.

*D is for Dragon (I think)

 

[DanX]

5090 is one of the 'banned for export' GPUs; Nvidia released an updated version 5090D*, which also became banned -- now there is a 5090DD to work around those restrictions. There are discussions on the H20 and other professional models in places too.

Well, doing a documentary on 5090 is missing the point.
This is similar to I am working on a documentary about drugs in Canada, and it focuses on cannabis.
And the document tells the Chinese people that Canada is like hell since you can buy drugs anywhere.

 

[Xebec]

Well, doing a documentary on 5090 is missing the point.
This is similar to I am working on a documentary about drugs in Canada, and it focuses on cannabis.
And the document tells the Chinese people that Canada is like hell since you can buy drugs anywhere.

This video isn't saying anything like that about China or Chinese people.

It talks about the ways that export controlled GPUs make it into China - whether it's for academic research, consumers, of military. The 5090 is quite powerful and has a decent amount of vram and a lot of memory bandwidth so it's quite useful for AI, especially in quantity.

The video also talks about how Nvidia "looks the other way" at these "lost' GPUs" etc.

Not similar at all to that document. Watch it for yourself

 

[siliconbruh999]

The video also talks about how Nvidia "looks the other way" at these "lost' GPUs" etc.

Nvidia closes their eyes when they see this

 

[DanX]

I am not a fan of so called KOL documentary.
There's at least two red flags on this:
1, why choose 5090, this is a consumer product , which means that smuggling it means nothing.
2, Bloomberg can block you on this which means so-called movie is just a remake of maybe some Bloomberg report.

It's a more about evoking emotions than reporting the truth.

Hard truth is hard, at least for me.

 

[tooLongInEDA]

I am not a fan of so called KOL documentary.
There's at least two red flags on this:
1, why choose 5090, this is a consumer product , which means that smuggling it means nothing.
2, Bloomberg can block you on this which means so-called movie is just a remake of maybe some Bloomberg report.

It's a more about evoking emotions than reporting the truth.

Hard truth is hard, at least for me.

Suggest you follow Xebec's advice and actually watch it before forming such definitive opinions.