Semiwiki on LinkedIn Semiwiki on Facebook Semiwiki on Twitter Register / Log in 
Array
(
    [content] => 
    [params] => Array
        (
            [0] => /forum/threads/tsmc-formally-sues-ex-svp-over-alleged-transfer-of-secrets-to-intel.24088/page-5
        )

    [addOns] => Array
        (
            [DL6/MLTP] => 13
            [Hampel/TimeZoneDebug] => 1000070
            [SV/ChangePostDate] => 2010200
            [SemiWiki/Newsletter] => 1000010
            [SemiWiki/WPMenu] => 1000010
            [SemiWiki/XPressExtend] => 1000010
            [ThemeHouse/XLink] => 1000970
            [ThemeHouse/XPress] => 1010570
            [XF] => 2030770
            [XFI] => 1060170
        )

    [wordpress] => /var/www/html
)

TSMC formally sues ex-SVP over alleged transfer of secrets to Intel

hist78 said:
There are two types of legal cases against Mr. Wei-Jen Lo: civil and criminal. During a criminal investigation, prosecutors can seize property and evidence to determine whether the suspect is acting with criminal intent or is innocent.
Click to expand...

This is good insight;

I'm kind of curious what TSMC IP is considered "national secrets" by Taiwan. Is it ANY TSMC IP? does it have to meet criteria for damaging the company or economy?

(Coming from companies supporting DoD - it was very clear what was a government problen and what wasn't. TSMC is very much commercial in my mind, though I know they also serve government and defense too..)
 
Xebec said:
This is good insight;

I'm kind of curious what TSMC IP is considered "national secrets" by Taiwan. Is it ANY TSMC IP? does it have to meet criteria for damaging the company or economy?
Click to expand...
I think everything related to leading edge manufacturing
Xebec said:
(Coming from companies supporting DoD - it was very clear what was a government problen and what wasn't. TSMC is very much commercial in my mind, though I know they also serve government and defense too..)
Click to expand...
I doubt DoD will fully rely on TSMC
 
INTC is almost 9% higher today. WJL news being the only somewhat significant Intel related news over Thanksgiving, one has to wonder if the two things are related. If they are, one possible explanation could be that investors are excited about LBT ability to attract top talent. The cynical reasoning might be that they believe that WJL brought 20 boxes off TSMC secrets with him and now Intel can catch up with them ;) Personally, I am just puzzled.
 
lilo777 said:
INTC is almost 9% higher today. WJL news being the only somewhat significant Intel related news over Thanksgiving, one has to wonder if the two things are related. If they are, one possible explanation could be that investors are excited about LBT ability to attract top talent. The cynical reasoning might be that they believe that WJL brought 20 boxes off TSMC secrets with him and now Intel can catch up with them ;) Personally, I am just puzzled.
Click to expand...
Uh there was another announcement today :ROFLMAO: :LOL: :ROFLMAO: :LOL:
 
Xebec said:
This is good insight;

I'm kind of curious what TSMC IP is considered "national secrets" by Taiwan. Is it ANY TSMC IP? does it have to meet criteria for damaging the company or economy?

(Coming from companies supporting DoD - it was very clear what was a government problen and what wasn't. TSMC is very much commercial in my mind, though I know they also serve government and defense too..)
Click to expand...

IP theft is like any other type of theft; it may or may not involve defense related products or technologies. The national security related issues, if any, are making the punishment more severe.
 
lilo777 said:
Firstly, Sergey Aleynikov was acquitted on all or almost all counts (on appeal). Secondly, he copied the code that he did not write. He copied the code used by Goldman Sachs for high speed trading just before he left for a competing company. One can understand the sensitivity. This has nothing in common with what I do. Thirdly, what happened to common sense and personal integrity? If you were to insist on following every letter of what we sign, there would not be any employees left, and, similarly, all companies should be sued into oblivion. You are also inventing accusations here. I am not copying all the codes and any data. The only excuse for your baseless accusations could be that you have no idea about software design.
Click to expand...

I was a programmer, not a software developer, and always find law quite interesting. ---> Following the logics.

>>> Firstly, Sergey Aleynikov was acquitted on all or almost all counts (on appeal).

Sergey Aleynikov - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

"By this time, Aleynikov had divorced and lost his savings. According to his lawyer, his life had been "all but ruined" as a result of his incarceration.

The government did not seek reconsideration of the Second Circuit's ruling, thus ending federal action against Aleynikov.

Later, on December 18, 2012, the Congress enhanced the 1996 Economic Espionage Act, in order to cover similar acts in future rulings, in a law referred to as the "Theft of trade secrets clarification act of 2012"

Another twist:

"On April 20, 2017 New York Court of Appeals granted Aleynikov's motion to appeal the reversal decision of the intermediate New York's appellate court. The New York Court of Appeals affirmed the decision of the Appellate Division on May 3, 2018, and he was sentenced to time served.

Aleynikov's lawyer, Kevin Marino, criticized the conviction, and indicated that he will appeal the outcome:

Mr. Aleynikov was twice placed in jeopardy for the same offense. He was acquitted in federal court because the source code copy he made was not tangible and convicted in state court because it was tangible. That’s double jeopardy. And if they were going to ask for time served, why did they waste six years and millions of taxpayer dollars pursuing this case? It is an appalling abuse of power by an office becoming well-known for it.
Click to expand...


For Aleynikov's counter-suit :

Malicious prosecution lawsuit​

Aleynikov sued the FBI agents who arrested him for malicious prosecution. The judge dismissed the case with respect to Aleynikov's federal prosecution, finding that the agents were warranted in believing that Aleynikov had violated the National Stolen Property Act and the Economic Espionage Act. Aleynikov's malicious prosecution claims in connection with his prosecution in New York state court were stayed pending the District Attorney's appeal of the New York trial court's decision to set aside his conviction."

>>> If you were to insist on following every letter of what we sign, there would not be any employees left

Really? You were excited to get the dream job and blindly signed whatever documents HR gave you, without reading the fine print, with NO intention to follow through. Wow.


​

 
ai268 said:
I was a programmer, not a software developer, and always find law quite interesting. ---> Following the logics.

>>> Firstly, Sergey Aleynikov was acquitted on all or almost all counts (on appeal).

Sergey Aleynikov - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

"By this time, Aleynikov had divorced and lost his savings. According to his lawyer, his life had been "all but ruined" as a result of his incarceration.

The government did not seek reconsideration of the Second Circuit's ruling, thus ending federal action against Aleynikov.

Later, on December 18, 2012, the Congress enhanced the 1996 Economic Espionage Act, in order to cover similar acts in future rulings, in a law referred to as the "Theft of trade secrets clarification act of 2012"

Another twist:

"On April 20, 2017 New York Court of Appeals granted Aleynikov's motion to appeal the reversal decision of the intermediate New York's appellate court. The New York Court of Appeals affirmed the decision of the Appellate Division on May 3, 2018, and he was sentenced to time served.

Aleynikov's lawyer, Kevin Marino, criticized the conviction, and indicated that he will appeal the outcome:




For Aleynikov's counter-suit :

Malicious prosecution lawsuit​

Aleynikov sued the FBI agents who arrested him for malicious prosecution. The judge dismissed the case with respect to Aleynikov's federal prosecution, finding that the agents were warranted in believing that Aleynikov had violated the National Stolen Property Act and the Economic Espionage Act. Aleynikov's malicious prosecution claims in connection with his prosecution in New York state court were stayed pending the District Attorney's appeal of the New York trial court's decision to set aside his conviction."

>>> If you were to insist on following every letter of what we sign, there would not be any employees left

Really? You were excited to get the dream job and blindly signed whatever documents HR gave you, without reading the fine print, with NO intention to follow through. Wow.


​

Click to expand...
Are you saying that you read all the fine print? Wow. You must be the only one. But that's not the point. I am well aware that the code I produce belongs to the employer. And I am totally fine with it. I think it's fair. I also think that I have the right to use the knowledge I acquired during the employment for developing my own skills as long as it does not cause any harm to the employer. I also believe the employers (at least the good ones) share this approach.

And it looks like you misunderstood the stuff you quoted. Specifically this.

The judge dismissed the case with respect to Aleynikov's federal prosecution, finding that the agents were warranted in believing that Aleynikov had violated the National Stolen Property Act and the Economic Espionage Act.

It looks like you interpreted this as if "Aleynikov had violated the National Stolen Property Act and the Economic Espionage Act". That's not what this sentence means. It's not about Aleynikov's guilt at all. It's about the state of mind of the agents, who mistakenly thought that "Aleynikov had violated the National Stolen Property Act and the Economic Espionage Act". The judge simply let the agents, who in fact did engage in malicious prosecution, off the hook because, in his opinion, there were reasons for them to believe in that BS. It did not matter that their beliefs were later proved to be wrong. It's just that the prosecution was not malicious because the agents truly believed in what Goldman Sachs told them.
 
lilo777 said:
INTC is almost 9% higher today. WJL news being the only somewhat significant Intel related news over Thanksgiving, one has to wonder if the two things are related. If they are, one possible explanation could be that investors are excited about LBT ability to attract top talent. The cynical reasoning might be that they believe that WJL brought 20 boxes off TSMC secrets with him and now Intel can catch up with them ;) Personally, I am just puzzled.
Click to expand...
Hope not. That would imply investors think Intel couldn't do anything on its own.
 
Last edited:
Fred Chen said:
Hope not. That would imply investors think Intel couldn't do anything in its own.
Click to expand...

I hope that by now Intel CEO Li-Bu Tan has realized he must prevent the situation from getting out of control. He needs to work with TSMC to resolve the issues surrounding Mr. Wei-Jen Lo. If he doesn’t, TSMC can take various actions or choose not to take certain actions that could significantly impact Intel’s revenue, profit, and business prospects.

For example, the TSMC department that interfaces with Intel’s projects could start strictly enforcing work-life balance. No one in that group would be allowed to answer or initiate emails or phone calls after 5 p.m. Taiwan time. No meetings would be allowed after hours or on weekends. Could Intel do anything if TSMC’s counterparts only work 9 to 5 on weekdays in Taiwan? Not much.

Or TSMC could accelerate the transfer and licensing of advanced packaging technologies to help Amkor and ASE expand their capabilities and capacities. This would reduce the potential market available to Intel Foundry.

Or TSMC could offer Intel’s Product division or other customers pricing that makes it difficult for Intel Foundry to compete, depriving it of the opportunity to scale up.

TSMC is a valuable partner for Intel’s business. Intel cannot afford to lose it, let alone offend it.
 
I think ultimately it depends on whether the case has merit. Based on LBT, it doesn’t. I believe that, in addition to its own efforts, Intel should also ask the US government—given its partial ownership stake—to address TSM’s anti-competitive practices once and for all.
 
XYang2023 said:
I think ultimately it depends on whether the case has merit. Based on LBT, it doesn’t. I believe that, in addition to its own efforts, Intel should also ask the US government—given its partial ownership stake—to address TSM’s anti-competitive practices once and for all.
Click to expand...

The case is not against Intel so LBT is probably right. I can assure you the authorities will find something at the houses of Wei-Jen Lo and statements made by his support staff about the alleged inappropriate meetings and notes that were taken. I do not see TSMC creating a smear campaign without supporting data to go with it. That is just not the TSMC I know and love.
 
Daniel Nenni said:
The case is not against Intel so LBT is probably right. I can assure you the authorities will find something at the houses of Wei-Jen Lo and statements made by his support staff about the alleged inappropriate meetings and notes that were taken. I do not see TSMC creating a smear campaign without supporting data to go with it. That is just not the TSMC I know and love.
Click to expand...
I have been watching Taiwanese news media on this case.

They mentioned that WJL also attended process discussions even though he was assigned to the strategy department. This occurred last year. At that time, Intel was in very poor operational condition. No one in their right mind would want to join Intel.

Hence, I don't think his behavior is anything strange. Strategy and process go hand-in-hand, and I see nothing wrong with that. If they found anything in WJL's home, I am sure that applies to all TSM employees. Therefore, that does not necessarily constitute wrongdoing. It is just part of corporate life. Based on LPT, Intel will not use any third-party IPs without consent. LPT also said he would fully support WJL in this case.

The Taiwanese government is also involved in this situation and is in the middle of negotiations with the U.S. Could this be a political stunt, at least in part?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top