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Special Report: Inside Intel, CEO Pat Gelsinger fumbled the revival of an American icon

I personally think they should just ban stock buybacks, as used to be the case.

That is up to the company to decide how they use or invest their own money. And up to the markets to decide how good the decisions are and which companies are creating the most value in the future. And for example everyone can short companies doing buybacks, if they really think it is always bad. You are not entitled to control others. Unfortunately are some oppressive countries where having freedom like this is not possible.
 
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There is a lot of truth in this article but also some fiction. It is hard to believe that so many people were involved in writing it:

Reporting by Jeffrey Dastin, Max Cherney and Stephen Nellis in San Francisco, Dawn Chmielewski in Los Angeles, and Fanny Potkin in Singapore; additional reporting by Milana Vinn in New York and Noel Randewich in San Francisco; Editing by Kenneth Li and Claudia Parsons

I remember having too many drinks with some Intel people at a GSA event after they signed the TSMC contract. They were shocked at the prepay and I can assure you the Intel discount was not as deep as Apple. Intel did renegotiate down the contract and the pricing did go up but it was not list price. That is ridiculous.

Pat did insult TSMC on multiple occasions and Morris Chang did take note of it but more importantly CC Wei took it personally and CC is not one to forgive and forget. Pat's comments were a great motivator for TSMC to be an even stronger competitor. I have also noticed more complimentary langue towards TSMC from Nvidia and other top TSMC customers. That has not always been the case. CC Wei has changed the competitive culture of TSMC and Pat G is one of the reasons.

Even worse, Pat's comment that "Taiwan is not a safe place" insulted an entire country. Do you really think MediaTek and other Taiwan companies are going to use Intel Foundry after that?

"Customers have little incentive to bet on Intel’s manufacturing when TSMC continues to serve them well, said Goldman Sachs analyst Toshiya Hari. “If you care about performance today, tomorrow, next year, over the next couple of years, you are not making that bet,” Hari said."

This is an understatement. As I have said before, you can fly first class on EVA Airlines with TSMC or middle seat coach on Spirit Airlines with Intel Foundry. Hopefully that will change but to facilitate that change Pat needs to own the problem and stop setting unrealistic expectations. Intel Foundry will never compete head-to-head with TSMC. It is time for an Intel Foundry pivot to something that can actually be achieved.

"Still, Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo said in September U.S. manufacturing represents a supply-chain “insurance policy” that major chip designers would pay for. “They should want U.S.-made leading-edge chips,” she said."

Of course US customers want a US based semiconductor supply chain. Every country wants that. US customers would always prefer US made products but our shelves are still filled with products made by China. Cost is everything especially in these inflationary times. What an ignorant thing to say.

I also found it ignorant for Pat G to complain about not getting CHIPs Act money yet. Intel has a performance based contract with the DOC. If they are not getting money then they are not performing, simple as that. Is TSMC complaining? How about Samsung? Has any other company complained? Read the contract Pat.

It will be interesting to compare AMD's Q3 numbers versus Intel's. This could be the undoing of Pat G and his "AMD is in the rearview mirror" mentality.

"A recent planning document produced by an Intel supplier indicates delays, however. The document, seen by Reuters, noted the supplier is still waiting to receive another digital design kit it needs to push ahead. It also lacked access to Intel factories, a person with knowledge of the situation said. Customers have little prospect of making chips in high volume with the 18A process until 2026, two people said."

They are talking about the process design kit (PDK). 9 people were involved in the article and not one knows what a PDK is? :ROFLMAO:

Intel said it expects to reclaim leadership in chip-manufacturing processes in 2025 by launching 18A.Gelsinger said in mid-September Intel had a “lot of work ahead,” but he continues to project confidence in his turnaround plan. “I'm very confident that we're going to pull it off,” Gelsinger told Reuters in August. “Three years in, yeah. This one's going to happen, baby.”

:ROFLMAO:

This is another ignorant statement. Define leadership in chip-manufacturing processes? Is that performance? Power? Density? Yield? Or is it the ability for a foundry customer to actually use the process? TSMC will dominate the foundry business once again with N2 and what is Pat going to say when he claims the "leading chip-manufacturing process" with no leading chip manufacturing customers?

The AMD vs Intel saga took an interesting turn when AMD switched to TSMC and Intel started using the same TSMC N3 process. From what I have heard thus far AMD is beating Intel in all regards which means it is not just process but the ability to design to it and more importantly the relationship between design and manufacturing. AMD has been working closely with TSMC for years on design co optimization and packaging while Intel is just starting. And how close is Intel with TSMC? Not as close as AMD, baby.

Just my opinion of course.
New desktop products from intel were a performance disaster from benchmarks I've seen. Big increase in power efficiency but REGRESSION in performance. Haven't seen that since AMD bulldozer days
 
It is FUD, fear uncertainty and doubt, a tool used by companies that can't compete. Sales people use it, oldest trick in the book, but CEOs do not. Pat is under a lot of pressure and frustrated, I get it, but that is conduct unbecoming of a fortune 100 CEO, my opinion.

The Taiwan China thing has been front page news for years so why exactly is it something that needed to be said by a semiconductor CEO? How about Intel's 3 fabs in Israel? Israel is at war with Iran. Is that something that needs to be said? How about North and South Korea? South Korea controls 70%+ of the memory market and without memory there is no need for logic. Can we atleast agree that Kim Jong Un is more unpredictable than Xi?

What other US semiconductor CEO is using geopolitical FUD?
My point exactly. All of samsung and sk skynix's fabs are in artillery range of a batsh*t insane country that is open about wanting to destroy it. And has nukes. The israel point is good too. Israel is actively underfire. It's a poor argument against taiwan for people to use IMO
 
New desktop products from intel were a performance disaster from benchmarks I've seen. Big increase in power efficiency but REGRESSION in performance. Haven't seen that since AMD bulldozer days
Performance might be salvageable with tweaks to the operating system. The OS scheduler seems to be sending workloads to the E-cores more than necessary because of changes to the chip topology. Windows seems to be the worst offender in this regard.
 
Performance might be salvageable with tweaks to the operating system. The OS scheduler seems to be sending workloads to the E-cores more than necessary because of changes to the chip topology. Windows seems to be the worst offender in this regard.
No hyperthreading in 2024 when so many apps gave been optimized for multithreading is a head scratcher
 
Unfortunately this is a general case in the US economy. Lack of investment is killing not just Intel but also Boeing and other US majors. They are treating the company as a piggy bank they can continuously take money out of. But in the technology business without constant investments you will lose your customers.

I personally think they should just ban stock buybacks, as used to be the case.
You make such a good point. Nothing wrong with paying dividends and buybacks. They just should only be done after necessary investments invested in the business to maintain your competitive position. Unfortunately too many professional managers put more focus on short-term stock performance.
 
No hyperthreading in 2024 when so many apps gave been optimized for multithreading is a head scratcher
ARL-S seems to be suffering from memory latency and core scheduling issues in gaming. Its seems to be good in multithreading workload due to the IPC gains brought by Skymont E cores. Also ARL-S CPU seems to be competitive with Zen 5 in productivity workloads in performance and perf/watt. Consumers and tech reviewers have been complaining about Intel CPUs running hot and drawing too much power. Intel fixes that with some minor regression (compared to highly clocked 14th gen raptor lake) in gaming performance. Now no one cares about cooling and efficiency!
 
ARL-S seems to be suffering from memory latency and core scheduling issues in gaming. Its seems to be good in multithreading workload due to the IPC gains brought by Skymont E cores. Also ARL-S CPU seems to be competitive with Zen 5 in productivity workloads in performance and perf/watt. Consumers and tech reviewers have been complaining about Intel CPUs running hot and drawing too much power. Intel fixes that with some minor regression (compared to highly clocked 14th gen raptor lake) in gaming performance. Now no one cares about cooling and efficiency!
Gaming is the primary focus for YouTubers ver few YouTubers do in-depth testing
 
No hyperthreading in 2024 when so many apps gave been optimized for multithreading is a head scratcher
I think the calculus is probably something like :

- SMT has had a lot of security issues, and they seem to be getting worse, so remove it for better perf 'with mitigations'
- SMT's perf/watt may be less than that of e-cores, so spend that silicon (and power budget) on those instead
- PCore+SMT area increase probably not much different than adding another e-core
- SMT is sort of a "3rd type of core" in a P+E setup - removing SMT should simplify scheduling
- Intel is still fielding more cores in a given segment than AMD
- There was (allegedly) a plan for an 8+32 Arrow Lake (i.e. 32 e-cores), but that seems to have been canned

Last point take with a big grain of salt of course since it's only "leakers" we've heard of this from.
 
- SMT has had a lot of security issues, and they seem to be getting worse, so remove it for better perf 'with mitigations'
A complex topic, but the only real fix is cache, memory, and PCIe encryption, so I can see where SMT is often seen as a pain in the butt with highly variable benefits.
- SMT's perf/watt may be less than that of e-cores, so spend that silicon (and power budget) on those instead
SMT performance has many dependencies which are not predictable except by testing, so the benefits look random to application developers. How much over-provisioning is in each functional unit of the cores (relative to what one thread could use), how deep is the instruction pipeline, how big are the caches, how much parallelism does the application really have in software multi-threading, how many kernel transitions do the apps have per so many thousands of instructions... personally, I'd rather have more single-threaded cores than SMT any day.
- PCore+SMT area increase probably not much different than adding another e-core
Intel claims the high end of SMT performance is about 135% of the same core with HT turned off. I wonder what the mean and mode benefit level is?
- SMT is sort of a "3rd type of core" in a P+E setup - removing SMT should simplify scheduling
To my knowledge, once HT is turned on the OS only sees a bunch of cores. I thought Intel provided Thread Director to give the OS hints about E-core versus P-Core scheduling. Am I out of date?
 
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