Array
(
    [content] => 
    [params] => Array
        (
            [0] => /forum/threads/softbank-corp-intel-announce-memory-chips-collaboration.24478/page-2
        )

    [addOns] => Array
        (
            [DL6/MLTP] => 13
            [Hampel/TimeZoneDebug] => 1000070
            [SV/ChangePostDate] => 2010200
            [SemiWiki/Newsletter] => 1000010
            [SemiWiki/WPMenu] => 1000010
            [SemiWiki/XPressExtend] => 1000010
            [ThemeHouse/XLink] => 1000970
            [ThemeHouse/XPress] => 1010570
            [XF] => 2030970
            [XFI] => 1060170
        )

    [wordpress] => /var/www/html
)

Softbank Corp, Intel announce memory chips collaboration

It may be Pat Gelsinger's game plan, but it is also his wishful thinking. He had invested so many resources into Intel Foundry but seems to have forgotten that the vast majority of Intel’s revenue and profit come from the Intel Product Division (the design side). Without competitive products from the Intel Product Division to sell and generate enough cash to fund Intel Foundry’s huge CapEx, his IDM 2.0 strategy won’t work, and it is killing Intel.
Intel product carried by Intel Fabs? Look at Intel Products going external and messing it up you seem to have forgotten the edge Fabs used to give to design one node ahead in the era of 0.5X Shrink with 20-25% perf/watt is a lot it's like 2 gen worth of area improvement and 1.5gen of perf/watt improvement in today's time.
It's not for Gelsinger that Intel blew up their advantage i would do the same thing and put resources into IFS though i would do it with careful planning not going overboard.
 
Intel product carried by Intel Fabs? Look at Intel Products going external and messing it up you seem to have forgotten the edge Fabs used to give to design one node ahead in the era of 0.5X Shrink with 20-25% perf/watt is a lot it's like 2 gen worth of area improvement and 1.5gen of perf/watt improvement in today's time.
It's not for Gelsinger that Intel blew up their advantage i would do the same thing and put resources into IFS though i would do it with careful planning not going overboard.

"Intel product carried by Intel Fabs?"

I'm not sure if I understand you clearly?
 
This picture is more accurate than all those ridiculous AI-generated art with diagonals.

The idea is to have more DRAM dies stacked laterally on their sides. The interconnects between the dies are part of the package rather than going through the dies.

The referred Intel patent application is mentioned here: https://www.computerbase.de/news/ar...-memory-zam-soll-besser-als-hbm-werden.96110/
 
This picture is more accurate than all those ridiculous AI-generated art with diagonals.

The idea is to have more DRAM dies stacked laterally on their sides. The interconnects between the dies are part of the package rather than going through the dies.

The referred Intel patent application is mentioned here: https://www.computerbase.de/news/ar...-memory-zam-soll-besser-als-hbm-werden.96110/
I'm sure national research institutes are also involved, right?
Both the US and Japanese sides
 
Note: to be less confusing to my fellow blogges, here is my revised edition:

Yes, Intel missed this golden opportunity (and many other memory or non-memory opportunities over the years). I almost feel as if there is a curse placed on Intel.

Nanya Technology, a smaller memory manufacturer in Taiwan, has seen its one‑year stock performance jump almost tenfold, despite its technology being two to three generations behind Samsung, SK Hynix, and Micron.

Intel, on the other hand, sold its NAND division to SK Hynix in 2020 and completed the transaction in March 2025. Intel’s intellectual property, R&D employees, and manufacturing assets related to NAND were transferred to SK Hynix through this sale. While NAND prices and demand are rising sharply, additional NAND supply is limited. Intel has lost the opportunity to participate in this NAND boom.
So DRAM and NAND are different…
I think Nanya is mainly DRAM.
 
This picture is more accurate than all those ridiculous AI-generated art with diagonals.

The idea is to have more DRAM dies stacked laterally on their sides. The interconnects between the dies are part of the package rather than going through the dies.

The referred Intel patent application is mentioned here: https://www.computerbase.de/news/ar...-memory-zam-soll-besser-als-hbm-werden.96110/
A zoom-in on the slide confirms this picture as well: https://www.techpowerup.com/345929/...-partner-on-next-gen-z-angle-memory#g345929-2

1770968075501.png
 
So DRAM and NAND are different…
I think Nanya is mainly DRAM.

Yes, I have understood that distinction for many years. If you have time, please read my previous three posts this thread.

I wrote that due to financial pressure, market conditions, and timing, Intel couldn’t stay in the memory manufacturing business. Now, while NAND memory is in hot demand and short supply, Intel had already sold its NAND memory division to SK Hynix in 2020. What if …

My point is that Intel repeatedly fails to gain footing in major opportunities. Intel loves to tell the world how great its technologies and products are, yet it continues to lose money and fall behind competitively. Meanwhile, Nanya, despite lagging technology and lagging products, can still capitalize on the current red‑hot memory market and generate huge profits.

Worse still, most major semiconductor companies have been making substantial profits over the past two years. Intel is one of the few that continues to lose money.

It feels like a tragic drama with different actors repeating at Intel year after year. Intel sold its ARM business just before the smartphone revolution. Intel walked away from Apple’s request to manufacture iPhone processors because it believed the volume would be too small. Intel didn't adopt EUV technology until 2023 (4 year after TSMC) because EUV didn't match Intel's product roadmap. Intel sold its NAND business before the market turned around. Intel declined the opportunity to become an OpenAI investor and hardware partner. The list goes on.

Why does Intel keep missing major opportunities? If Intel can’t compete in profitability with giants like TSMC, Nvidia, and Broadcom, and also can’t compete in profitability with much smaller companies like Nanya in a booming semiconductor market, what went wrong with Intel? Should we expect Intel to suddenly excel when the market cools down?

Intel always has good explanations for why it missed each opportunity. But in a fast moving industry, those explanations don’t help much. After so many missed chances, even the best “reasons” start to look like useless excuses.
 
While I've yet to get back to you on your IDM is a doomed business model thesis, we can simplify your observations to two things:

Intel's only very long term success is the line of CPUs that started with the 1971 4004. Even though it was founded to do memory because of the coming disparate volume of that vs. logic, and reached HVM with the first major commercially available 1103 1K bit DRAM also in 1971, it wasn't super competitive in the market in the 1970s and dropped out in the 1980s. It did do other types of memory which it often developed, and as you note that included flash recently, but nothing super long lived.

Every other CPU it did either failed, or it eventually quit the market. A possible exception is microcontrollers from 1976 through 2007, but I'm not sure how significant they were to the bottom line after the IBM PC started a new phase in the industry with the 8088.

Touching on our IDM discussion:
Intel didn't adopt EUV technology until 2023 (4 year after TSMC) because EUV didn't match Intel's product roadmap.
It would be more accurate to say Intel's roadmap got stuck in a huge pothole with 10 nm.

Although I agree in part, unlike TSMC N7 which in due course had a N7+ variant with some EUV use that started their production experience, 10 nm was more aggressive than N7 and never planned on adding EUV.

But they were planning on EUV for their next node, which ended up being the Intel 4/3 family. But didn't that get delayed by the 10 nm debacle because they depended on technologies developed for 10 nm, which took so long to get out of the lab?

We could also discuss the misses of one sort or another of its successful line of CPUs:

Like the 8085, 286, Netburst, FSB and other memory madness, having to adopt AMD's 64 bit macroarchitecture, problems all the way to catastrophes stemming from verification and simulation after Brian Krzanich nuked that, and I infer having to mark time by spending too much energy on switching from their own bespoke CAD to industry standard (Arrow Lake for example), and/or in that generation maybe failing to do well in switching to tile based designs.

We could further simplify this to how one man, Brian Krzanich, between 10 nm and verification and simulation, turned Intel the IDM from being generally successful to generally failing. He doesn't bear all the blame, he inherited, grew up in an increasingly dysfunctional corporate culture, didn't e.g. have much power and I assume influence when Craig Barrett took over from Andy Grove, but he's certainly an inflection point.
 
Back
Top