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Jeff Bezos reportedly returns to the trenches as co-CEO of new AI startup, Project Prometheus

soAsian

Well-known member
Bezos is raising funds, maybe putting some of his own money into a new AI startup. Then you've got Elon Musk calling Bezos a "copy cat"


NEWS: Jeff Bezos has created a new AI startup where he will be Co-CEO.It's called Project Prometheus and has received $6.2B in funding, some from Bezos himself. The startup is going to build AI products for engineering and manufacturing in fields like computers, aerospace and automobiles. The company already has almost 100 staff, including researchers from Meta, OpenAI and Google DeepMind.


LOL, are we in an AI bubble? If we are, what's up with all these new AI investments coming from super rich folks?

 

Bezos is raising funds, maybe putting some of his own money into a new AI startup. Then you've got Elon Musk calling Bezos a "copy cat"


LOL, are we in an AI bubble? If we are, what's up with all these new AI investments coming from super rich folks?

How else they gonna get to milk the masses?
 
There can be a bubble and there can still be high potential AI investments at the same. The bubble, if there is indeed a bubble, is mostly related to Large Language Models, especially their training. As an LLM skeptic, I am concerned that some of the huge datacenter investments might not be so relevant in post-LLM strategies. For me, it's too soon to tell.

I have found it interesting that LLM implementation improvements, which lately is mostly the increase in the number of parameters they're trained with, don't seem to be forecast-able. The only predictor seems to be more is better. The primary reasoning improvements I've read about seem to be related to large-scale human "prompting" and "tuning" certain results with targeted editing.

The lack of determinism in output quality improvement in a way reminds me a bit of mineral extraction, you don't really know what you'll get until you dig or drill. And LLM qualitative performance predictions don't seem even that good. I think this is the real AI risk - you don't really know what you'll get until you spend hundreds of billions on datacenters.

Anyone have a different opinion?
 
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There can be a bubble and there can still be high potential AI investments at the same. The bubble, if there is indeed a bubble, is mostly related to Large Language Models, especially their training. As an LLM skeptic, I am concerned that some of the huge datacenter investments might not be so relevant in post-LLM strategies. For me, it's too soon to tell.

Agreed re: Bubble but with opportunities. You can already see DC investments turning sour as this space matures - take a look at Apple switching gears to leverage Google/Gemini increasingly rather than it's own product, which presumably was/is using a lot of data center capacity.

I have found it interesting that LLM implementation improvements, which lately is mostly the increase in the number of parameters they're trained with, don't seem to be forecast-able. The only predictor seems to be more is better. The primary reasoning improvements I've read about seem to be related to large-scale human "prompting" and "tuning" certain results with targeted editing.

I'm seeing a split here;

The large providers - OpenAI, Grok, etc. are all definitely going down the path of "give me more compute/memory capacity, and I can make a bigger model". We're even seeing this playout in real-world applications of AI models -- see Tesla FSD -- it is getting better over time, but the compute requirements are continually increasing to make that happen. But we're also seeing diminishing returns -- like almost everything else that becomes "better" through increased complexity. (i.e. high tech goods in general).

On the flip side, "Local" LLMs are largely used at consistent fixed sizes, and the capability of each is greatly improving at a given size. I thnk we'll see a world with a few large "MCP" AI models (Tron reference), and then a large plethora of local models that are either wholly or partially derived from the larger models. That will reduce Datacenter demand at some point, but not necessarily quickly.

The future AI supply chain model is still up for grabs.

The lack of determinism in output quality improvement in a way reminds a bit me of mineral extraction, you don't really know what you'll get until you dig or drill. And LLM qualitative performance predictions don't seem even that good. I think this is the real AI risk - you don't really know what you'll get until you spend hundreds of billions on datacenters.

John Carmack suggested that at some point in the future we'll look back to this period and realize we already had the ingredients for AGI, and didn't need nearly the compute or complexity we're spending on it to make it work.

I think the crash is just going to come down to economics. For me, LLMs are "fun", and help me reduce the amount of time to (re)search topics I want to learn about.. but I'm not going to open my wallet very deeply for this "privilege". However, the applications of LLMs - such as unsupervised full self driving, or semi-autonomous robots might make me spend more money than I'm willing to spend today.

I would like to hear success stories of LLMs improving logistics - which would matter to everyone.

...

P.S. "Ethical/Societal" challenge here -- what will the impacts be to the users of the world if the LLM they are depending on was trained only in English or Chinese, but live translates to their langauge? Will there be cultural or other backlashes, or a demand for "natively trained" AIs? Are LLMs trained in specific texts likely to be biased towards certain cultural ties created by users of those langauges?
 
There can be a bubble and there can still be high potential AI investments at the same. The bubble, if there is indeed a bubble, is mostly related to Large Language Models, especially their training. As an LLM skeptic, I am concerned that some of the huge datacenter investments might not be so relevant in post-LLM strategies. For me, it's too soon to tell.

I have found it interesting that LLM implementation improvements, which lately is mostly the increase in the number of parameters they're trained with, don't seem to be forecast-able. The only predictor seems to be more is better. The primary reasoning improvements I've read about seem to be related to large-scale human "prompting" and "tuning" certain results with targeted editing.

The lack of determinism in output quality improvement in a way reminds me a bit of mineral extraction, you don't really know what you'll get until you dig or drill. And LLM qualitative performance predictions don't seem even that good. I think this is the real AI risk - you don't really know what you'll get until you spend hundreds of billions on datacenters.

Anyone have a different opinion?
I feel the world is still in the early stages of AI/ML and will be until true AI/ML can learn and adapt on its own. This will require a whole new level of inputs with a careful use of architecture designed for this particular purpose. Any thoughts would be appreciated, THANKS
 
I have found it interesting that LLM implementation improvements, which lately is mostly the increase in the number of parameters they're trained with, don't seem to be forecast-able. The only predictor seems to be more is better. The primary reasoning improvements I've read about seem to be related to large-scale human "prompting" and "tuning" certain results with targeted editing.

The lack of determinism in output quality improvement in a way reminds me a bit of mineral extraction, you don't really know what you'll get until you dig or drill. And LLM qualitative performance predictions don't seem even that good. I think this is the real AI risk - you don't really know what you'll get until you spend hundreds of billions on datacenters.
Eloquence!
 
There can be a bubble and there can still be high potential AI investments at the same. The bubble, if there is indeed a bubble, is mostly related to Large Language Models, especially their training. As an LLM skeptic, I am concerned that some of the huge datacenter investments might not be so relevant in post-LLM strategies. For me, it's too soon to tell.

I have found it interesting that LLM implementation improvements, which lately is mostly the increase in the number of parameters they're trained with, don't seem to be forecast-able. The only predictor seems to be more is better. The primary reasoning improvements I've read about seem to be related to large-scale human "prompting" and "tuning" certain results with targeted editing.

The lack of determinism in output quality improvement in a way reminds me a bit of mineral extraction, you don't really know what you'll get until you dig or drill. And LLM qualitative performance predictions don't seem even that good. I think this is the real AI risk - you don't really know what you'll get until you spend hundreds of billions on datacenters.

Anyone have a different opinion?
I think you have to have a very long term view and be comfortable with the unknown.

I think there are a few things that can be said with certainty:

1. Computing power will increase and cost will go down
2. Both the quantity and quality of training data will increase
3. AI architecture will improve significantly to better take advantage of 1 & 2
4. The prize is very large

I think back to AlexNet and how it revolutionized Machine Vision, and noone new exactly why it worked so well. But over the next 3-4 years and a lot of research people got a sense of how convolutional layers were extracting features from image and this knowledge was used to further improve the architecture of deep learning models for vision. Similarly a lot of fundamental research led to the development of transformer architecture in 2017 which is the basis of LLMs today, and then in the last couple of years we have seen reasoning models which is another breakthrough.

So what I see is a pattern of incremental improvement where you are mostly benefiting from increasing in computing power and data (which has diminishing returns), but also every few years there are architectural breakthroughs that lead to major step changes, and I wouldn't be surprised if there is another step change soon.
 
I think you have to have a very long term view and be comfortable with the unknown.

I think there are a few things that can be said with certainty:

1. Computing power will increase and cost will go down
2. Both the quantity and quality of training data will increase
3. AI architecture will improve significantly to better take advantage of 1 & 2
4. The prize is very large

I think back to AlexNet and how it revolutionized Machine Vision, and noone new exactly why it worked so well. But over the next 3-4 years and a lot of research people got a sense of how convolutional layers were extracting features from image and this knowledge was used to further improve the architecture of deep learning models for vision. Similarly a lot of fundamental research led to the development of transformer architecture in 2017 which is the basis of LLMs today, and then in the last couple of years we have seen reasoning models which is another breakthrough.

So what I see is a pattern of incremental improvement where you are mostly benefiting from increasing in computing power and data (which has diminishing returns), but also every few years there are architectural breakthroughs that lead to major step changes, and I wouldn't be surprised if there is another step change soon.
I'm just been very skeptical that LLMs are the basis for AI the world is really looking for. Probabilistic answer generation makes my eyes roll. Yann LeCun, Meta's exiting chief AI scientist thinks world models are a better basis for the future. The first time I read about world models I liked them better than LLMs, because their processing is based on using facts and scientific concepts rather than probabilities derived from language usage. I admit that I was drawn to world models mainly because of my dislike of probabilistic processing to formulate answers, rather than any deep knowledge of how world models actually function. And I also admit I've followed LeCun mostly because he supports my original skepticism rather then some deep investigation, so far.
 
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