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Intel Nova Lake-S uses TSMC N2 process Tape-Out

MKWVentures said:
Intel is creating back up plans and parallel plans for 18A products and maybe beyond. This will give them the flexibility needed to navigate the restructuring.

I would use 18 Months from Tapeout to Launch minimum.... even that might be a paper launch (products not on shelves).

We will see the product roadmap change before Nova lake gets launched.
Click to expand...
Huh there are things getting changed before nova lake ? There are only 2 products before NVL Launch Panther and Clearwater forest.
 
siliconbruh999 said:
Huh there are things getting changed before nova lake ? There are only 2 products before NVL Launch Panther and Clearwater forest.
Click to expand...
there will be product ROADMAP changes when intel publishes the client and datacenter/AI roadmap in the next year. This will include which skus are on which node and which are dropped.

Speaking of which.... naming convention:

If Intel takes a CPU, keeps the core, redoes it.... isnt that just a refresh? not a new generation? RLR was called 14th gen ... as was meteor lake. doesnt seem right.
and doesnt the codename "Arrow lake" go with the core design. Meteor lake on Intel 3 is not arrow lake.... the cores are different?
I hope this "when is Arrow lake not arrow lake" confusion goes away. LOL
 
Semiaccurate never said anything about Nova Lake. SA has a blurb called: "Intel Tapes Out a Major Product", but SA is not talking about Nova Lake or N2. This article is either mis-attributing or making things up.
 
XtorTourist said:
Semiaccurate never said anything about Nova Lake. SA has a blurb called: "Intel Tapes Out a Major Product", but SA is not talking about Nova Lake or N2. This article is either mis-attributing or making things up.
Click to expand...

Both.

Intel is using N2 for high performance tiles. They will also use 18P and N3. That is the bonus of using chiplets (tiles).

semiwiki.com

Intel 18A(P) Process Technology Wiki - Semiwiki

Intel 18A(P) (also referred to as Intel 18A+ or simply 18A Performance) is Intel’s upcoming advanced semiconductor process node, positioned as a refinement and performance enhancement of the base Intel 18A node. It marks a critical step in Intel's roadmap to reclaim process leadership by the...
semiwiki.com semiwiki.com
 
Daniel Nenni said:
Both.

Intel is using N2 for high performance tiles. They will also use 18P and N3. That is the bonus of using chiplets (tiles).

semiwiki.com

Intel 18A(P) Process Technology Wiki - Semiwiki

Intel 18A(P) (also referred to as Intel 18A+ or simply 18A Performance) is Intel’s upcoming advanced semiconductor process node, positioned as a refinement and performance enhancement of the base Intel 18A node. It marks a critical step in Intel's roadmap to reclaim process leadership by the...
semiwiki.com semiwiki.com
Click to expand...
On Nova Lake CPU. Are they using N2 or 18A? or N3

I am not sure how (because people keep saying it takes 3+ years to change designs)..... but Intel is changing the nodes used on multiple chiplets to deal with financial issues. They seems to think they can shift back and forth from TSMC.

Unless they had parallel development efforts going, It would appear one can change from one node to another and tapeout in less than a year. What am I missing? thanks in advance
 
MKWVentures said:
On Nova Lake CPU. Are they using N2 or 18A? or N3

I am not sure how (because people keep saying it takes 3+ years to change designs)..... but Intel is changing the nodes used on multiple chiplets to deal with financial issues. They seems to think they can shift back and forth from TSMC.

Unless they had parallel development efforts going, It would appear one can change from one node to another and tapeout in less than a year. What am I missing? thanks in advance
Click to expand...

Yes, with chiplets. Big monolithic designs 2-3 years. Apple does SoCs every year but they are generally incremental rather than a complete redesign.
 
MKWVentures said:
So NVL and Diamond rapids are already taped out on 18A? Correct?
Click to expand...
18AP and this was update given in foundry event with two products running in the fabs for 18AP(NVL/DMR)
MKWVentures said:
On Nova Lake CPU. Are they using N2 or 18A? or N3

I am not sure how (because people keep saying it takes 3+ years to change designs)..... but Intel is changing the nodes used on multiple chiplets to deal with financial issues. They seems to think they can shift back and forth from TSMC.

Unless they had parallel development efforts going, It would appear one can change from one node to another and tapeout in less than a year. What am I missing? thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Regarding Nova Lake except for the Swappable compute tile(CPU Tile) everything is IFS the CPU Tile is dual sourced between 18AP/N2. N2 is for desktop and 18AP is mobile.
 
siliconbruh999 said:
They have the best dual sourcing strategy right now but these decisions should have been taken sooner so they won't be in this state
Click to expand...
Dual sourcing is good for some areas and for flexibility. but the fundamental Intel problem from 2020 was:

Intel cannot afford to do development unless they get higher volume. If you amortize the development costs over 1.5 fabs, its a money loser and it is not a competitive advantage in performance.

Intel was counting on more internal volume and more external volume. We will see how the accounting pans out in 2026

BTW: Decisions were taken earlier :
1) 2020: outsource everything
2) 2021: make everything Internal starting on 18A ("Bring wafers home")
3) 2025: Pat's gone... mix it up while we figure out what to do with these fabs and JVs and whatever
4) 2027: Outsource everything (just a guess)

Intel has made clear decision 3 different times LOL :ROFLMAO: :LOL: :ROFLMAO: :LOL:
 
Last edited:
MKWVentures said:
Dual sourcing is good for some areas and for flexibility. but the fundamental Intel problem from 2020 was:

Intel cannot afford to do development unless they get higher volume. If you amortize the development costs over 1.5 fabs, its a money loser and it is not a competitive advantage in performance.

Intel was counting on more internal volume and more external volume. We will see how the accounting pans out in 2026

BTW: Decisions were taken earlier :
1) 2020: outsource everything
2) 2021: make everything Internal starting on 18A ("Bring wafers home")
3) 2025: Pat's gone... mix it up while we figure out what to do with these fabs and JVs and
4) 2027: Outsource everything (just a guess)

Intel has made clear decision 3 different times LOL :ROFLMAO: :LOL: :ROFLMAO: :LOL:
Click to expand...

Compare to 2020's Intel financial situation, Intel today has much worse financial strength to do anything .

Intel Free Cash Flow:

2024: -$15.656 billion
2023: -$14.279 billion
2022: -$9.411 billion
2021: $11.258 billion
 
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