Radically Improved Battery, Uses Silicon instead of Graphite

[Arthur Hanson]

A group of ex-Tesla engineers feels they may have a radical advance that may be a real game-changer. There have been many dead-end claims in the battery field, but this one looks to hold real promise to literally change the world around us radically. It looks like the first use will be in phones. Any thoughts or comments on this will be appreciated.

Sila Nanotechnologies' Magic Powder Makes Your Phone Run Longer

The batteries in your EV, phone, or laptop all share a common characteristic: They suck. By playing with nanostructures, Sila Nanotechnologies has created an ingredient to boost your battery's power.

www.inc.com

 

[hkwint]

One needs specifics to judge about this.

What's the lifetime, cost and temperature range of the new technology?
What makes this technology different than the other dozen companies who claim the same?
What is the technology readiness level?
And as they're not yet bought by a bigger company (Panasonic, LG Chem, Samsung or CATL): Why not?

Smartwatches is of course the easiest segments; requirements for capacity, number of required life cycles, technical lifetime and cost efficiency are low.

 

[Portland]

Battery technology is a huge deal. I wouldn't want an electric vehicle during the zombie apocalypse but they'll when you drive them it's easier on you. A lot of freight haulers would have no problem driving an electric.

 

[Arthur Hanson]

One needs specifics to judge about this.

What's the lifetime, cost and temperature range of the new technology?
What makes this technology different than the other dozen companies who claim the same?
What is the technology readiness level?
And as they're not yet bought by a bigger company (Panasonic, LG Chem, Samsung or CATL): Why not?

Smartwatches is of course the easiest segments; requirements for capacity, number of required life cycles, technical lifetime and cost efficiency are low.

A lot of companies have learned that you operate in stealth mode until the actual introduction and/or release as little as possible, so much of the information you are asking for is unavailable. It doesn't take a genius to realize this is going to be a trillion-dollar market worldwide that encompasses all forms of energy storage for all numerous different uses requiring different specifications, technologies, and configurations.

 

[Paul2]

A lot of companies have learned that you operate in stealth mode until the actual introduction and/or release as little as possible, so much of the information you are asking for is unavailable. It doesn't take a genius to realize this is going to be a trillion-dollar market worldwide that encompasses all forms of energy storage for all numerous different uses requiring different specifications, technologies, and configurations.

Most what makes difference to battery capacity per weight, and volume sits on the cathode side. Anode on other side, even if you replace it with solid lithium will only make like 15% weight improvement.

So, that super duper stealth mode start-up promises to improve battery energy to weight ratio by at most 12-13%., and very likely just few percent in practice.

 

[Paul2]

Contents of modern Li-Ion cell are by mass:

1. Cathode material - 35%-60% depending on chemistry
2. Anode material 10%-15%
3. Electrolytes 12%-15%
4. Foil, separator, terminals, everything else 20%-30% depending of cell format

You can't do anything number 4. Separator is already almost featherweight. And Ohms law says you can't do anything about the weight of Aluminium, and Copper, aside increasing their current collection capacity by using some 3D corrugation patterns, but even that can only shave 2%-3% weight at max over straight foil.

Don't know much about electrolytes, but heard that there is also very few things you can do about their amount.

Anode replacement with silicon will give you straight 5%-6% improvement over graphite, but that's it.

 

[Memphremagog]

A group of ex-Tesla engineers feels they may have a radical advance that may be a real game-changer. There have been many dead-end claims in the battery field, but this one looks to hold real promise to literally change the world around us radically. It looks like the first use will be in phones. Any thoughts or comments on this will be appreciated.

Sila Nanotechnologies' Magic Powder Makes Your Phone Run Longer

The batteries in your EV, phone, or laptop all share a common characteristic: They suck. By playing with nanostructures, Sila Nanotechnologies has created an ingredient to boost your battery's power.

www.inc.com

A group of ex-Tesla engineers feels they may have a radical advance that may be a real game-changer. There have been many dead-end claims in the battery field, but this one looks to hold real promise to literally change the world around us radically. It looks like the first use will be in phones. Any thoughts or comments on this will be appreciated.

Sila Nanotechnologies' Magic Powder Makes Your Phone Run Longer

The batteries in your EV, phone, or laptop all share a common characteristic: They suck. By playing with nanostructures, Sila Nanotechnologies has created an ingredient to boost your battery's power.

www.inc.com

A group of ex-Tesla engineers feels they may have a radical advance that may be a real game-changer. There have been many dead-end claims in the battery field, but this one looks to hold real promise to literally change the world around us radically. It looks like the first use will be in phones. Any thoughts or comments on this will be appreciated.

Sila Nanotechnologies' Magic Powder Makes Your Phone Run Longer

The batteries in your EV, phone, or laptop all share a common characteristic: They suck. By playing with nanostructures, Sila Nanotechnologies has created an ingredient to boost your battery's power.

www.inc.com

While it is now four years after this was posted, I just came across it. You should check out Group14 Technologies. They are the first silicon anode materials company to reach "EV scale" with their 2,000 metric ton, 10 GWh plant in Korea commissioned in September 2024, and a same sized one in Moses Lake, WA due to go live this summer (2025). They are not only already in millions of Chinese smartphones, but now via their customer Molicel (P50B) in eVTOL aircraft, heavylift eDrones, and the fastest car in the world (McMurtry Spierling Pure). Be watching for more mainstream customer announcements as the US plant goes live and major battery makers and auto OEMs have assured volumes from two sites.

 

[count]

Contents of modern Li-Ion cell are by mass:

1. Cathode material - 35%-60% depending on chemistry
2. Anode material 10%-15%
3. Electrolytes 12%-15%
4. Foil, separator, terminals, everything else 20%-30% depending of cell format

You can't do anything number 4. Separator is already almost featherweight. And Ohms law says you can't do anything about the weight of Aluminium, and Copper, aside increasing their current collection capacity by using some 3D corrugation patterns, but even that can only shave 2%-3% weight at max over straight foil.

Don't know much about electrolytes, but heard that there is also very few things you can do about their amount.

Anode replacement with silicon will give you straight 5%-6% improvement over graphite, but that's it.

You are wrong on #4.

Believe it or not, there is a lot of room to reduce the amount of Aluminum and Copper in the current collector. The thickness of these materials is not driven by ohms law, it's driven by the manufacturing process - you need a thick enough material to run through a coating line at high speeds without falling apart. That's what's really driving the thickness of those foils. One of the things that companies are doing is instead of using copper/aluminum foil as the current collector, they are using thinner copper/aluminum foil laminated on a plastic film, which reduces the amount of copper/aluminum required by replacing some of it with cheaper/lighter plastic.

Also separators are getting thinner and thinner. A few years ago 20um was the standard size. I think it's now down to 10um, and companies think they can go down to 3-5um. So at least a 50% reduction in material cost is likely possible here.

On terminals, there has been a lot of innovation lately - see Tesla "tabless design", unfortunately they didn't get it quite as tabless as they were targeting and they have sort of a "flower" tab on it now... but I think they are still working on eliminating that. I think we will probably eventually see batteries they don't have a welded tab (having a tab is unavoidable, but most of the mass of the tab is the part that is welded on).

The other thing we are seeing is a shift to larger format cells, think 4680 vs 2160. Larger cell means fewer terminals, tabs, cans, and other parts compared to the amount of active material.

You are also wrong on Anode replacement only giving a 5-6% improvement over graphite. Silicon anode will have a higher working voltage, and energy (and therefor energy density) is a function of voltage^2. So every single lithium ion is more energetic and you need less cathode material, less electrolyte, less everything to get to the same energy density. This is a major reason why a few years ago I dismissed Sodium Ion batteries when they were all the rage - I explained to my investor and VC friends that while they would save money on cathode material, the lower operating voltage would handicap every other part of the cell performance, and you'd need more of everything else in the battery and the overall thing would end up costing more.

 

[Xebec]

Battery technology is a huge deal. I wouldn't want an electric vehicle during the zombie apocalypse but they'll when you drive them it's easier on you. A lot of freight haulers would have no problem driving an electric.

During the zombie apocalypse - you want an EV; because you can make almost anything into electricity. Gasoline is a lot more complex to manufacture. (Gas stations still require electricity to pump out of the ground too).

 

[count]

During the zombie apocalypse - you want an EV; because you can make almost anything into electricity. Gasoline is a lot more complex to manufacture. (Gas stations still require electricity to pump out of the ground too).

Batteries are very very complex to manufacture. Gasoline is actually really simple to make, it's a distillation process. The make gasoline out of stolen crude oil in the slums of India and Africa and sell it on the side of the road... it's not great for your engine but it actually does work. I remember seeing a documentary on this in Africa but couldn't find it, and when I visited India I was given a tour of a manufacturing slum where people were making their own gasoline. Here is an example in Syria.

Makeshift oil refineries a necessary evil for locals in north-west Syria

Toxic fumes and repiratory disease among hazards facing people reliant on informal processing plants for work and fuel

www.theguardian.com

Of course this is not exactly a safe or environmentally process.

 

[count]

Here is the example from Africa:

Dangerous, Toxic, and Necessary — Photos Go Inside DIY Oil Refining in the Niger Delta

Nigeria is the largest oil-producing country in Africa and the continent's biggest supplier of crude petroleum to the United States. More than 2 million barrels of oil are extracted from the Niger Delta, the main oil-producing region, every day. This output is achieved through operations that...

www.wired.com

 

[Xebec]

Batteries are very very complex to manufacture. Gasoline is actually really simple to make, it's a distillation process. The make gasoline out of stolen crude oil in the slums of India and Africa and sell it on the side of the road... it's not great for your engine but it actually does work. I remember seeing a documentary on this in Africa but couldn't find it, and when I visited India I was given a tour of a manufacturing slum where people were making their own gasoline. Here is an example in Syria.

Makeshift oil refineries a necessary evil for locals in north-west Syria

Toxic fumes and repiratory disease among hazards facing people reliant on informal processing plants for work and fuel

www.theguardian.com

Of course this is not exactly a safe or environmentally process.

Well if ZA occurs, let's stay in touch, I don't think we'll last enough years that we'll need to manufacture new batteries .

I'm happy to have one gas car and one EV, but I know my EV will be serviceable longer here in the Pennsylvania when the zombies arrive .

 

[Memphremagog]

You are wrong on #4.

Believe it or not, there is a lot of room to reduce the amount of Aluminum and Copper in the current collector. The thickness of these materials is not driven by ohms law, it's driven by the manufacturing process - you need a thick enough material to run through a coating line at high speeds without falling apart. That's what's really driving the thickness of those foils. One of the things that companies are doing is instead of using copper/aluminum foil as the current collector, they are using thinner copper/aluminum foil laminated on a plastic film, which reduces the amount of copper/aluminum required by replacing some of it with cheaper/lighter plastic.

Also separators are getting thinner and thinner. A few years ago 20um was the standard size. I think it's now down to 10um, and companies think they can go down to 3-5um. So at least a 50% reduction in material cost is likely possible here.

On terminals, there has been a lot of innovation lately - see Tesla "tabless design", unfortunately they didn't get it quite as tabless as they were targeting and they have sort of a "flower" tab on it now... but I think they are still working on eliminating that. I think we will probably eventually see batteries they don't have a welded tab (having a tab is unavoidable, but most of the mass of the tab is the part that is welded on).

The other thing we are seeing is a shift to larger format cells, think 4680 vs 2160. Larger cell means fewer terminals, tabs, cans, and other parts compared to the amount of active material.

You are also wrong on Anode replacement only giving a 5-6% improvement over graphite. Silicon anode will have a higher working voltage, and energy (and therefor energy density) is a function of voltage^2. So every single lithium ion is more energetic and you need less cathode material, less electrolyte, less everything to get to the same energy density. This is a major reason why a few years ago I dismissed Sodium Ion batteries when they were all the rage - I explained to my investor and VC friends that while they would save money on cathode material, the lower operating voltage would handicap every other part of the cell performance, and you'd need more of everything else in the battery and the overall thing would end up costing more.

Indeed, the improvement from silicon-carbon anodes replacing graphite runs into the 25%-50% higher energy density range. This is not just theoretical, but is now being demonstrated in commercially available batteries (or those very soon to be). Good examples are Molicel's P50B that was released in Q3 2024 (and soon to be released P60B): https://www.molicel.com/newsroom/molicel-won-2024-ultra-high-power-cell-manufacturer-of-the-year/ Also Sionic's recent battery release: https://spectrum.ieee.org/silicon-anode-battery-2670396855 And then Inobat's announcement: https://www.inobat.eu/newsroom/test...on-for-the-high-performance-mobility-markets/ In addition, the big increase in battery density / life being realized in Chinese smartphones is all coming from silicon carbon batteries. https://www.group14.technology/reso...14s-scc55-powers-honor-magic7-pro-smartphone/ https://www.croma.com/unboxed/honor...yqDKXz5fVtCEVZuF_Ah7bQGFIUA7B1pV7fRkcMyVjpncA

 

[count]

Indeed, the improvement from silicon-carbon anodes replacing graphite runs into the 25%-50% higher energy density range. This is not just theoretical, but is now being demonstrated in commercially available batteries (or those very soon to be). Good examples are Molicel's P50B that was released in Q3 2024 (and soon to be released P60B): https://www.molicel.com/newsroom/molicel-won-2024-ultra-high-power-cell-manufacturer-of-the-year/ Also Sionic's recent battery release: https://spectrum.ieee.org/silicon-anode-battery-2670396855 And then Inobat's announcement: https://www.inobat.eu/newsroom/test...on-for-the-high-performance-mobility-markets/ In addition, the big increase in battery density / life being realized in Chinese smartphones is all coming from silicon carbon batteries. https://www.group14.technology/reso...14s-scc55-powers-honor-magic7-pro-smartphone/ https://www.croma.com/unboxed/honor...yqDKXz5fVtCEVZuF_Ah7bQGFIUA7B1pV7fRkcMyVjpncA

2 years ago I predicted a 10x improvement and battery cost/performance at the pack level over the next 10 years. Very few people believed me then but now we have already seen a 2x performance improvement in the last 2 years... so another 5x to go in the next 8 years. We are ahead of schedule with lots of avenues for further improvement in material science, manufacturing process, and product architecture.

 

[Paul2]

You are also wrong on Anode replacement only giving a 5-6% improvement over graphite. Silicon anode will have a higher working voltage, and energy (and therefor energy density) is a function of voltage^2. So every single lithium ion is more energetic and you need less cathode material, less electrolyte, less everything to get to the same energy density. This is a major reason why a few years ago I dismissed Sodium Ion batteries when they were all the rage - I explained to my investor and VC friends that while they would save money on cathode material, the lower operating voltage would handicap every other part of the cell performance, and you'd need more of everything else in the battery and the overall thing would end up costing more.

Very interesting. How much silicon-carbon anode impacts the battery cycle life?

 

[count]

Very interesting. How much silicon-carbon anode impacts the battery cycle life?

That’s the biggest challenge right now, silicon anode expands and contracts during charge/discharge and that causes the material to deteriorate faster than graphite. Most of the work being done on silicon anode is around improving cycle life.

To me silicon anode is a stopgap to lithium anode, but there are lots of challenges with lithium anode as well.

 

[count]

As an additional datapoint on cycle life, the benchmark for LFP batteries for EV applications with a graphite anode is 10,000 cycles. I don't believe commercial silicon anode batteries are anywhere near this level yet. There have been R&D claims of higher cycle life silicon anode batteries, but I'm not sure how much weight to give those claims.

I'm actually more optimistic on Lithium anode batteries (I use the term Lithium Anode broadly, but solid state falls into this category) than I am on Silicon Anode, as I think the challenges there are going to be easier to work around (although still very significant). I say this because I believe the challenges with Lithium anode batteries are mostly related to manufacturing vs the underlying material science.

 

[Paul2]

As an additional datapoint on cycle life, the benchmark for LFP batteries for EV applications with a graphite anode is 10,000 cycles. I don't believe commercial silicon anode batteries are anywhere near this level yet. There have been R&D claims of higher cycle life silicon anode batteries, but I'm not sure how much weight to give those claims.

I'm actually more optimistic on Lithium anode batteries (I use the term Lithium Anode broadly, but solid state falls into this category) than I am on Silicon Anode, as I think the challenges there are going to be easier to work around (although still very significant). I say this because I believe the challenges with Lithium anode batteries are mostly related to manufacturing vs the underlying material science.

I understand the lithium anode batteries will have lower voltage?

 

[count]

I understand the lithium anode batteries will have lower voltage?

Lithium anode batteries have the highest theoretical working voltages (and energy density).

Solid state batteries are example of lithium anode. This is the main attraction of solid state - it's a pathway towards lithium anode. Solid state in my view is completely proven from a materials science standpoint, and the major challenges are manufacturing. They are very very expensive to manufacture relative to conventional. I use the term Lithium anode more broadly since there are other potential pathways that might end up being cheaper to manufacture.

As an aside, the reason for solid state is that liquid electrolytes do not work well with lithium anode. However there is a lot of research in this area and some breakthroughs that I have seen in electrolytes that would allow for lithium anode batteries to be manufactured using conventional battery manufacturing technology.