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US pushes Netherlands to ban Dutch tech supplier ASML from selling older semiconductor manufacturing equipment to China

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
First EUV now DUV? Another reason for China to harass Taiwan.


The US is pushing the Netherlands to ban ASML Holding from selling to China mainstream technology used in making a large chunk of the world's semiconductors, expanding its campaign to curb the country's rise in chip production, according to people familiar with the matter.

Washington's proposed new restriction would expand an existing moratorium on the sale of the most advanced chip-making systems to China, thwarting Beijing's plans for the country to become a world leader in the semiconductor industry. If the Netherlands agrees, it would significantly broaden the range and class of chip-making gear now forbidden from heading to China, potentially dealing a serious blow to mainland chip makers from SMIC to Hua Hong.

American officials are lobbying their Dutch counterparts to bar ASML from selling some of its older deep ultraviolet lithography, or DUV, systems, the people said. These machines are a generation behind cutting-edge, but still the most common method in making certain less-advanced chips required by cars, smartphones, computers and even robots.

ASML's American Depositary Receipts extended losses to as much as 8.3 per cent, the biggest intraday drop since March 2020, after Bloomberg's initial report. Shares in Nikon Corp, a smaller rival to the Dutch firm in that sphere of chip making gear technology, slid as much as 8.6 per cent in Tokyo - heading for their biggest drop in almost two years. SMIC and Hua Hong also fell more than 1 per cent in early Hong Kong trading on Wednesday.
 

benb

Active member
I think this illustrates de-globalization.
Much more interesting, de-globalization, than globalization was.
This sanction has NATO fingerprints, I would say, and NATO may grow in its reach to all of the Eurasian continent.
 
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fansink

Active member
If I invented an advantage, and one of my licensees was selling such advantage to my competitor, and after warning licensee they did not stop, I’d pull their license.
 
P

Portland

Guest
Prohibiting equipment sales to china is likely why there was a chip shortage.
 

Barnsley

Member
What has CCP been trying to reverse engineer off if they dont have DUV machines already?

Where is Godfree Roberts when you need him?

He would have loved this topic
 

Barnsley

Member
I think this illustrates de-globalization.
Much more interesting, de-globalization, than globalization was.
This sanction has NATO fingerprints, I would say, and NATO may grow in its reach to all of the Eurasian continent.

What NATO fingerprints?

What reach you talking about?

Maybe you so fired up that you typing faster than thinking
 

Xebec

Active member
This is becoming a complete reversal of the Bretton-Woods agreement after WW2 that largely stabilized the world through guarentee of open trade on the seas…. Not good for humanity.

Related, Asianometry had a good video recently on why and how the USSR lost the race and ended up permanently 20 years behind the US in chip and computer technology. The takeaway is that while copying/cloning (and also due to political culture reasons), the USSR failed to build everything necessary to keep evolving in line with the US and eventually that killed all of their capability to develop new. That afforded the US a great deal of security in technology. However, it’s clear China won’t make the same mistakes.
 

lilo777

Active member
Taiwan is much more a partner than a competitor.
I see your point. Indeed Taiwan is politically a partner. Economically though their semiconductor industry takes away customers and jobs from US. But today the politics rules. US' stand is that they are working against the "autocratic regimes". It may or may not be the full story. US have plenty of autocratic allies. If China were more democratic but still were overtaking US economically (and eventually militarily) it is not at all clear how US would take it.
 

Fred Chen

Moderator
China is becoming self-sufficient in ArF, but the level of quality of their lithography systems, even for 90nm, is still unknown.
 

Paul2

Active member
I see your point. Indeed Taiwan is politically a partner. Economically though their semiconductor industry takes away customers and jobs from US. But today the politics rules. US' stand is that they are working against the "autocratic regimes". It may or may not be the full story. US have plenty of autocratic allies. If China were more democratic but still were overtaking US economically (and eventually militarily) it is not at all clear how US would take it.

China's rise owes a lot more to Taiwan/Korea/Japan than to USA. But that was only possible with US blessing. If US has stomped its foot in 1991, and sanctioned UK to death for investing into China through HK, I bet China would've still been a closed country, if not collapsing outright.

The rise of China also owes a lot to US not allowing the rise of Japan. The US doing nothing less than destroying Japanese IC industry in eighties-nineties played not a small part for Japanese big money becoming fleeing Japan to China as a middle finger move. US choosing to not to be friends with the Japan in late eighties, only meant Japan becoming friends with the Chinese to the disastrous results. It's very much a repeat how US lost China after WW2 — communists were on the brink of annihilation only to be saved by inane US intervention.

Similarly, today's US American panic with realisation of Taiwan gaining a near monopoly on advanced IC manufacturing inadvertently plays into China's hand as US now puts like 10x more pressure in Taiwan than it does on China over the problem of China. The next few Taiwanese elections may play a very unpleasant surprise for the US if it continues playing like it does now. US provoking Taiwanese business into repeating the middle finger move Japan did to US will be a giant blow to US in Asia, and strengthen China.

If the US has problem with China why the heck it blackmails the Taiwanese business, instead of Chinese to move to America, while at the same time keeping erecting more trade barriers for us?

Very similarly, the US totally racketeered Germany, and EU on trade for decades, which then at least in part played its role in the rise of EU's continentalist camp, which propped up Russia to play it against the US to, again, grave results.

The US have an exceptionally bad track record of pushing its closest allies into the hands of its enemies. The realpolitik idiots ruining US foreign policy with its allies must be fired, preferably, by a firing squad.
 
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coldsolder215

Active member
The realpolitik idiots ruining US foreign policy with its allies must be fired, preferably, by a firing squad.

What's really crazy is how every administration since Carter makes the Nixon-Kissinger realists seem totally reasonable and even competent. Trump waged a moronic trade war and definitely screwed Iran, but at least he staffed the state dept with dumb Iran Contra neocons so that those coup attempts in Venezuela and Bolivia were total buffoonery. Brandon has totally sundowned and is surrounded by a bunch of lanyard wearing elder abusers who have become too detached by D.C. careerism for any one thing to happen, and this is reflected in our foreign policy: Iran is our enemy! No wait now it's Aghanistan! Whatabout China and Taiwan! Cmon man, Ukraine needs billions in small arms for their freedom! Climb on in jack and buckle up, nevermind the gas prices and cost of food! We're gonna make Tsar Nicky look like Louis XIV!
 
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fansink

Active member
I see your point. Indeed Taiwan is politically a partner. Economically though their semiconductor industry takes away customers and jobs from US. But today the politics rules. US' stand is that they are working against the "autocratic regimes". It may or may not be the full story. US have plenty of autocratic allies. If China were more democratic but still were overtaking US economically (and eventually militarily) it is not at all clear how US would take it.

TSMC is not a competitor to any US company, e.g. Intel, as there are no significant “pure play” foundries in the US.
 
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