Array
(
    [content] => 
    [params] => Array
        (
            [0] => /forum/index.php?threads/us-bans-sales-of-14nm-and-16nm-chips-with-over-30-billion-transistors-to-china.21880/
        )

    [addOns] => Array
        (
            [DL6/MLTP] => 13
            [Hampel/TimeZoneDebug] => 1000070
            [SV/ChangePostDate] => 2010200
            [SemiWiki/Newsletter] => 1000010
            [SemiWiki/WPMenu] => 1000010
            [SemiWiki/XPressExtend] => 1000010
            [ThemeHouse/XLink] => 1000970
            [ThemeHouse/XPress] => 1010570
            [XF] => 2021770
            [XFI] => 1050270
        )

    [wordpress] => /var/www/html
)

US bans sales of 14nm and 16nm chips with over 30 billion transistors to China

XYang2023

Well-known member
Panasonic

(Image credit: Panasonic)

The U.S. government plans to unveil stricter regulations to block shipments of advanced processors made by TSMC, GlobalFoundries, Intel, and Samsung Foundry to China. By 'advanced,' the new rules mean processors made on 14nm or 16nm process technologies or more advanced that contain 30 billion transistors or more, according to Bloomberg. But there will be exceptions.

The new rules target chips with 30 billion transistors made on 14nm or 16nm nodes or smaller, as such products are presumed to be restricted for shipment to entities in China and other restricted nations unless their developers get an export license from the U.S. Department of Commerce. Chip designers from the U.S., Taiwan, or an allied nation can apply for a license if they sell to 'authorized customers.' Also, processors with fewer than 30 billion transistors and packaged by a trusted company would not be classified as advanced and, therefore, would not fall under the new restrictions, according to Bloomberg's sources.

Virtually all modern processors rely on FinFET transistors and, therefore, on 14nm, 16nm, or more advanced process technologies. This rule applies to many currently available processors, from simple SSD controllers to smartphone CPUs and CPUs for client PC. However, since most client processors (except GPUs) contain fewer than 30 billion transistors and are packaged by well-known companies, they will not be subject to U.S. export controls.

Also, since companies like AMD, Apple, Intel, MediaTek, Silicon Motion, and Phison are either based in the U.S. or Taiwan, they will likely be granted export licenses by the U.S. Department of Commerce even when their processors made on advanced nodes reach a transistor count of 30 billion or higher. This will happen shortly, as Apple's M4 system-on-chip for mainstream PCs is already at 28 billion transistors.

But while the new export rules have little to do with the vast majority of chips for client devices, they force AMD, Intel, and Nvidia to apply for an export license when selling mainstream GPUs to a Chinese entity, even if that GPU was previously deemed unrestricted because its AI performance was not considered powerful enough for severe applications. This could impact Nvidia significantly.

However, the U.S. government may not be directly interested in barring sales of gaming graphics cards to China. The plan is to control shipments of moderately or highly advanced AI GPUs to China, Iran, or Russia. As a bonus, the U.S. government is closing loopholes to prevent blacklisted Chinese or Russian entities from acquiring sophisticated AI GPUs through proxy companies (like Huawei did with Sophgo as an intermediary). From now on, any processor containing over 30 billion transistors and made on a 14nm/16nm production node shipped to China is subject to U.S. export controls.

It remains to be seen whether the current administration will impose the new restrictions or whether the government will prepare the groundwork and leave the enactment to the incoming Trump administration.

 
I'm guessing there will be more chips less than 30 billion transistors? And how does that work with chiplets? Ridiculous.
 
This is just a stupid move China Don't need these nodes they already have them this will just force them into their own HW even more
 
This is indeed useless action as Chinese companies have 193i DUV scanner and already can make 14/16nm and below (e.g., 6-7nm node) chips. Biden administration seems to intendedly not completely close the critical technology leaking path, namely, all types of 193i DUV scanner, no matter what level of overlay accuracy. Now Chinese company can make 193 dry scanner (some critical components may still come from outside) with resolution of 65nm and overlay accuracy of about 8nm.
 
Last edited:
This is indeed useless action as Chinese companies have 193i DUV scanner and already can make 14/16nm and below (e.g., 6-7nm node) chips. Biden administration seems to intendedly not completely close the critical technology leaking path, namely, all types of 193i DUV scanner, no matter what level of overlay accuracy. Now Chinese company can make 193 dry scanner (some critical components may still come from outside) with resolution of 65nm and overlay accuracy of about 8nm.

Yes, I have spotted this too. They intentionally make sanctions of theatrical nature that don't work, with screamingly large backdoors in sanctions. The question is the motivation, and who inserts these footnotes which render entire rules defunct.

Before, I believed that lobbying would not go as far as for some anonymous lobbied bureaucrat to sink top executive policies. It seemed impossible that bureaucrats who are high enough to be personally meeting cabinet level officials, who can fire them at will, will go as far as outright overriding their superiors, but the events of the last 3 years have made me believe that it can be actually far worse.

There was a story of Russian oligarch who managed to strike her name from the US sanctions list few hours before it was to be signed into law with the aid of a minor DC lobbying company, and for "a paltry sum" of $0.5m. I cannot see how that can happen if not as somebody very high up just takes and erases a line from the order moments before it is printed, and put on the desk of US president. If someone can do even that, then somebody taking money to insert few obscure lines of legalese into sanction rules doesn't seems improbable anymore.
 
(Image credit: Panasonic)

The U.S. government plans to unveil stricter regulations to block shipments of advanced processors made by TSMC, GlobalFoundries, Intel, and Samsung Foundry to China. By 'advanced,' the new rules mean processors made on 14nm or 16nm process technologies or more advanced that contain 30 billion transistors or more, according to Bloomberg. But there will be exceptions.

The new rules target chips with 30 billion transistors made on 14nm or 16nm nodes or smaller, as such products are presumed to be restricted for shipment to entities in China and other restricted nations unless their developers get an export license from the U.S. Department of Commerce. Chip designers from the U.S., Taiwan, or an allied nation can apply for a license if they sell to 'authorized customers.' Also, processors with fewer than 30 billion transistors and packaged by a trusted company would not be classified as advanced and, therefore, would not fall under the new restrictions, according to Bloomberg's sources.
This is stupid. However it is not a Ban if you can get an export license. At one point 90% of Intel's revenue went through China and required a Export license which was granted 100% of the time. I also think it is a problem that the US tries to regulate other countries. China is Taiwan's major trading partner.... for some reason the US is more paranoid than Taiwan?

If the US is going to implement bans without waiting periods and significant inputs from corporations, companies need to look to move out of the US.
 
This is stupid. However it is not a Ban if you can get an export license. At one point 90% of Intel's revenue went through China and required a Export license which was granted 100% of the time. I also think it is a problem that the US tries to regulate other countries. China is Taiwan's major trading partner.... for some reason the US is more paranoid than Taiwan?

If the US is going to implement bans without waiting periods and significant inputs from corporations, companies need to look to move out of the US.

This is a trap that Biden set for Trump.

Biden released tons of new export control rule just before leaving office. This leaves little room for Trump to impose more export restrictions without severely harm US companies and face backlash,and if Trump doesn't continue to expand export control like Biden did,the democrats can then accuse him for being soft on China.
 
This is a trap that Biden set for Trump.

Biden released tons of new export control rule just before leaving office. This leaves little room for Trump to impose more export restrictions without severely harm US companies and face backlash,and if Trump doesn't continue to expand export control like Biden did,the democrats can then accuse him for being soft on China.
Trap?

Doing the dirty work for when Donny arrives at work Monday?
 
This is a trap that Biden set for Trump.

Biden released tons of new export control rule just before leaving office. This leaves little room for Trump to impose more export restrictions without severely harm US companies and face backlash,and if Trump doesn't continue to expand export control like Biden did, the democrats can then accuse him for being soft on China.

I think it sets a low bar for Trump to negotiate up. Trump is all about negotiation and blustering in asking for twice as much as you need is par for the course. I think international issues were Biden's big failing. Let's see what Trump does. Either way it will be fun to watch, which is what politics is to me, entertainment.

 
Last edited:
I think it sets a low bar for Trump to negotiate up. Trump is all about negotiation and blustering in asking for twice as much as you need is par for the course. I think international issues were Biden's big failing. Let's see what Trump does. Either way it will be fun to watch, which is what politics is to me, entertainment.


Yes, there is a a freaking war in Europe with million sized armies, and I don't see bad publicity from that ever bothering the politicians mentioned with both of their stances being very unpopular.
 
This is a trap that Biden set for Trump.

Biden released tons of new export control rule just before leaving office. This leaves little room for Trump to impose more export restrictions without severely harm US companies and face backlash,and if Trump doesn't continue to expand export control like Biden did,the democrats can then accuse him for being soft on China.

Don't worry about Trump will run out of options. PRC has almost $1 trillion international trade surplus for 2024. There are plenty of options for Trump and any countries to pick to show PRC that free trade is not one-way street.
 
Don't worry about Trump will run out of options. PRC has almost $1 trillion international trade surplus for 2024. There are plenty of options for Trump and any countries to pick to show PRC that free trade is not one-way street.

What Trump doesn't understand,is that having defict in goods and services is actually good for the US
 
What Trump doesn't understand,is that having defict in goods and services is actually good for the US
Could you be specific? I expended your statement using o1:

A U.S. trade deficit can signal economic strength by reflecting strong domestic demand and the ability to attract foreign investment, which is supported by the dollar’s role as a global reserve currency. It allows the U.S. to specialize in high-value industries—where it holds a comparative advantage—while importing goods at lower cost, ultimately benefiting both consumers and businesses. The steady inflow of foreign capital fosters investment, innovation, and job creation, and the overall flexibility of the U.S. economy enables it to adapt to global competition. Hence, a trade deficit in itself need not be detrimental, particularly when viewed alongside broader indicators like GDP growth, employment, and technological progress.
 
It is more complicated and it depends. It can signal strength but it might not translate into actual strength specially in hostile environment . Also some groups are benefitting while other not so much. Try asking shipyard or steel workers which cannot possibly compete and it is not caused by low productivity. Result is that China have 500x higher shipbuilding capacity than US.


And here is common error lot of people make. These imports are not cheap, they are low cost thanks to subsidies but long term You are paying much more which is why other side loves to subsidize them.
 
It is more complicated and it depends. It can signal strength but it might not translate into actual strength specially in hostile environment . Also some groups are benefitting while other not so much. Try asking shipyard or steel workers which cannot possibly compete and it is not caused by low productivity. Result is that China have 500x higher shipbuilding capacity than US.

No,China did not take away the shipbuilding market share from the US. Because the US shipbuilding industry has gone LONG before China(and even Korea)enters the game.

That blame should goes to the Japanese and Europeans,they were the one who destroyed US shipbuilding. After that the Koreans enters the game,then China enters the game last.

China took away market share from Korea and Japan, not from the US





Global-shipbuilding-market-share-1981-2000-Source-Adapted-from-Haralambides-2019-and.png
 
Than You for correction, yes other countries had their economic miracles too with surplus industrial policies and similar results...
 
Back
Top