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TSMC needs to partner with India

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
I certainly hope this is true. I have heard rumblings like this quite a bit of late. India is the #2 reader of SemiWiki followed by Taiwan, China, and South Korea. USA is #1 of course. India is the second most populated country between China and the USA. A partnership between TSMC and India would be huge for the geopolitical landscape, absolutely.

Taiwan seeks alternate sites for semiconductor manufacturing amid China tensions​

Taiwan makes some of the world's smallest and most advanced computer chips -- a commodity that is vital for electronics but in short supply worldwide.​

Taiwan's semiconductors are used in electronics across the globe.
Taiwan's semiconductors Taiwan's semiconductors are used in electronics across the globe.
  • Taiwan is seeking a resilient global supply chain and alternate sites for manufacturing semiconductors amid the ongoing tensions with China. The island is also in talks with India for shifting semiconductor manufacturing to break China's stranglehold around it.

India Today spoke to Gabriel Chou, deputy project director, Macronix international, one of the largest semiconductor manufacturers in Taiwan, on how the firm aims to maintain a resilient supply chain.

"We work with our customers. We prepare raw materials early to ensure smooth production. A major proportion of our raw materials come from Japan. But, semi-conductors need a global supply chain for raw materials. To ensure resilient supply, we prepare in advance. From raw material to finished product, there are thousands of manufacturing steps and if one step goes wrong the production has to be stopped," Gabriel Chou told India Today.

More than 1.5 lakh people are engaged in integrated circuit manufacturing in Hsinchu Science Park, located 80 kms from Taipei. Taiwan's semiconductors are used in electronics across the globe from mobiles to missiles; TV to play stations; and automobiles to aircraft.

 

Barnsley

Member
Wont the internal politics within India make this tricky?
Some state is going to have to give quite the incentive for TSMC to go there.
FABS take up a massive amount of resources especially water , the country struggling already with droughts and access to clean water to start with.
 

Paul2

Active member
Wont the internal politics within India make this tricky?
Some state is going to have to give quite the incentive for TSMC to go there.
FABS take up a massive amount of resources especially water , the country struggling already with droughts and access to clean water to start with.

Absolutely. TW people are taken completely aback with their first encounter with India, and South Asia at large.

If you read TW press, you see C-levels delivering big speeches on India left, and right. They send men on the ground, and then you hear the tape ripping.

High levels are very convinced on move to India, it's an industry-wide consensus, but low levels send to do things on the ground are in despair. It takes years for feedback in TW to reach boardrooms.

Few tips from one Digitimes stringer: they are specifically prohibited to develop the story about other South Asian manufacturing efforts to not to invite comparisons with India, as this will put the narrative about move to India in a negative light.
 

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member

Apple’s New iPhone 14 to Show India Closing Tech Gap With China​

  • Foxconn is using Indian operations to supplement base in China
  • Apple’s high standards for secrecy complicated India efforts

 

Paul2

Active member

Apple’s New iPhone 14 to Show India Closing Tech Gap With China​

  • Foxconn is using Indian operations to supplement base in China
  • Apple’s high standards for secrecy complicated India efforts


From what I know, it's still just finishing assembly, as was before at Foxconn's Chennai factory.
 

Paul2

Active member
True, but if Apple says put a fab in India TSMC will put a fab in India.
Yes, but TSMC itself is like 1% only of the remaining supply chain.

Not even Foxconn can verticalise the smartphone manufacturing. Aside from own silicon, iphones are made of stuff not much different from any other smartphones.

For example, India has not a single lithium battery cell maker, not even basic li-co. Even Bangladesh nearby has a cell maker.
 

hist78

Well-known member
True, but if Apple says put a fab in India TSMC will put a fab in India.

Apple won't say it. If Apple wants, they can push TSMC to do more in Japan, Singapore, or Arizona. Those sites can provide more certainty to Apple than other places.
 

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
Apple won't say it. If Apple wants, they can push TSMC to do more in Japan, Singapore, or Arizona. Those sites can provide more certainty to Apple than other places.

India has the biggest growth market for semiconductors outside of China. That is the point. India also has a huge semiconductor design community and it is growing. Most of which is from US companies. Here is who reads SemiWiki around the world:
 

hist78

Well-known member
A fab needs a lot of electricity and water.

For water, a fab can pre-build water tanks and recycle as much water as possible.

But in terms of the electricity supply and reliability, that is not something a company, such as TSMC, can resolve single-handed. It needs a lot government investment and structure change to make it suitable to start a large scale semiconductor fab operations.

 

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
A fab needs a lot of electricity and water.
For water, a fab can pre-build water tanks and recycle as much water as possible.
But in terms of the electricity supply and reliability, that is not something a company, such as TSMC, can resolve single-handed. It needs a lot government investment and structure change to make it suitable to start a large scale semiconductor fab operations.

Power is solvable. When I fly over China I see solar panels. India not so much. Nuclear is coming back much smaller, cleaner, and safer. Water is much more difficult but TSMC has the same issue in Taiwan. If India wants industry changes will have to be made, absolutely.

California will have power and water cuts this year. It is really bad yet it is business as usual unless you are a resident or farmer.
 

hist78

Well-known member
Power is solvable. When I fly over China I see solar panels. India not so much. Nuclear is coming back much smaller, cleaner, and safer. Water is much more difficult but TSMC has the same issue in Taiwan. If India wants industry changes will have to be made, absolutely.

California will have power and water cuts this year. It is really bad yet it is business as usual unless you are a resident or farmer.

Yes, the electricity supply issue is solvable but it takes time. Probably it will take longer time than to build a fab.
 

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
Market does not equals production, the US is the biggest market for most consumer products yet the production is done overseas

True but I am talking about onshoring. China started it, the US is politicizing it and Europe is following. As the second most populous country India seems like a good candidate as well. But yes it will take time and now that the chip shortage is in our rear view mirror the media and politicians will be chasing other shiny objects.
 

benb

Active member
There has been dramatic news regarding Indian electronics nearly every week for a while, and it is China-related:


India bans China phone brands < $150


Vivo, money laundering in India
Honor, pulling Chinese team out of India

India decoupling from China creates a new environment for new entrants who play by the global rules. Whether that means you can build fabs in India, which no one has done yet, remains to be seen.
 
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Anshuman

New member
Yes, but TSMC itself is like 1% only of the remaining supply chain.

Not even Foxconn can verticalise the smartphone manufacturing. Aside from own silicon, iphones are made of stuff not much different from any other smartphones.

For example, India has not a single lithium battery cell maker, not even basic li-co. Even Bangladesh nearby has a cell maker.
 

VCT

Active member
It's really difficult for foreigner (especially Taiwanese) to do business in India. I can not recall any huge successful example for Taiwanese to do well in India. I actually saw many people lost their jobs because failure in India.
 
Requirements include tractable politics, efficient and ethical bureaucracy, suitable local culture*, and a highly-disciplined and suitably-educated workforce. Plus, in most locations you have extreme air-conditioning requirements.
Then there are the issues with water and electricity: the fab would effectively need its own reservoir and power station (not just chort-term emergency back-up) to stay running - another area for the foundry-managers to learn.
I'm sure I experienced other issues, but time is a great healer.
*For example, there needs to be a measure of assent that means more than "I heard your words"

Just to point to one personal observation: it's hard enough getting less-critical mid-tech to work over there. A previous employer entered a co-operative venture with the objective of producing precision components: not particularly high tech, but as customer requirments progressed they needed continuous environmental control through a multi-day sequence of processes. Four years ago this employer took sole ownership of this company, whose activities have become limited to PCB and ceramic hybrid manufature and assembly
 
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