Array
(
    [content] => 
    [params] => Array
        (
            [0] => /forum/index.php?threads/tsmc-may-set-up-wafer-fabs-in-germany-and-japan.14427/page-2
        )

    [addOns] => Array
        (
            [DL6/MLTP] => 13
            [Hampel/TimeZoneDebug] => 1000070
            [SV/ChangePostDate] => 2010200
            [SemiWiki/Newsletter] => 1000010
            [SemiWiki/WPMenu] => 1000010
            [SemiWiki/XPressExtend] => 1000010
            [ThemeHouse/XLink] => 1000970
            [ThemeHouse/XPress] => 1010570
            [XF] => 2020770
            [XFI] => 1050170
        )

    [wordpress] => /var/www/html
)

TSMC may set up wafer fabs in Germany and Japan

hist78

Active member
I’ve been thinking about Portland’s needling about how some groups, call it country or state or city, don’t like to ”work”. It’s a pretty harsh and unprovable slander, but there’s something to it. I think it has to do with the growing and PPE requirements to protect the fab and workers from chemicals.

What people hate about fabs is the gown, the face mask, the safety glasses, the PPE. It is a very personal, basic thing. You have to wear a gown and then, for periods of time, chemical gown and chemical gloves, on top of that, and it gets hot, and you sweat. Then you have to go out into the office and look sweaty. So its embarassing. People hate this and they quit. I view this as a reasonable but Portland views it as aversion to work.

Tropical climates are the worst for wearing PPE. In Hsinchu, gowns get soggy, so nasty it makes my skin crawl. A fab in New York, or Dresden, is a better place for a fab because it’s a northern climate. Austin is an OK climate for a fab except for June, July and August. Phoenix is OK except for 8 months of the year. Ireland is fine, I imagine. Scotland used to have fabs; that is a great place for them.

I think a fab in Vancouver, BC (Canada) would be great. Japan has fabs in some northern places. This is where fabs should be. Then people won’t get soggy and quit and Portland won’t blame them.
"Phoenix is OK except for 8 months of the year. "

Had someone told TSMC about this? 😲
 
I’ve been thinking about Portland’s needling about how some groups, call it country or state or city, don’t like to ”work”. It’s a pretty harsh and unprovable slander, but there’s something to it. I think it has to do with the growing and PPE requirements to protect the fab and workers from chemicals.

What people hate about fabs is the gown, the face mask, the safety glasses, the PPE. It is a very personal, basic thing. You have to wear a gown and then, for periods of time, chemical gown and chemical gloves, on top of that, and it gets hot, and you sweat. Then you have to go out into the office and look sweaty. So its embarassing. People hate this and they quit. I view this as a reasonable but Portland views it as aversion to work.

Tropical climates are the worst for wearing PPE. In Hsinchu, gowns get soggy, so nasty it makes my skin crawl. A fab in New York, or Dresden, is a better place for a fab because it’s a northern climate. Austin is an OK climate for a fab except for June, July and August. Phoenix is OK except for 8 months of the year. Ireland is fine, I imagine. Scotland used to have fabs; that is a great place for them.

I think a fab in Vancouver, BC (Canada) would be great. Japan has fabs in some northern places. This is where fabs should be. Then people won’t get soggy and quit and Portland won’t blame them.
Dumb question here (having shamefully never been inside a wafer fab) - aren't the fabs air conditioned (along with all the other air purification) ?
 

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
I’ve been thinking about Portland’s needling about how some groups, call it country or state or city, don’t like to ”work”. It’s a pretty harsh and unprovable slander, but there’s something to it. I think it has to do with the growing and PPE requirements to protect the fab and workers from chemicals.

What people hate about fabs is the gown, the face mask, the safety glasses, the PPE. It is a very personal, basic thing. You have to wear a gown and then, for periods of time, chemical gown and chemical gloves, on top of that, and it gets hot, and you sweat. Then you have to go out into the office and look sweaty. So its embarassing. People hate this and they quit. I view this as a reasonable but Portland views it as aversion to work.

Tropical climates are the worst for wearing PPE. In Hsinchu, gowns get soggy, so nasty it makes my skin crawl. A fab in New York, or Dresden, is a better place for a fab because it’s a northern climate. Austin is an OK climate for a fab except for June, July and August. Phoenix is OK except for 8 months of the year. Ireland is fine, I imagine. Scotland used to have fabs; that is a great place for them.

I think a fab in Vancouver, BC (Canada) would be great. Japan has fabs in some northern places. This is where fabs should be. Then people won’t get soggy and quit and Portland won’t blame them.

I think all manufacturing jobs are at risk due to the new "work from home" ideology. Do you really want to commute and punch a clock each day wearing protective clothing? Or would you like the flexibility of working from home full or part time? Personally I will never commute or punch a clock again. It's just not healthy, physically or mentally, absolutely.
 

Portland

Active member
I’ve been thinking about Portland’s needling about how some groups, call it country or state or city, don’t like to ”work”. It’s a pretty harsh and unprovable slander, but there’s something to it. I think it has to do with the growing and PPE requirements to protect the fab and workers from chemicals.

What people hate about fabs is the gown, the face mask, the safety glasses, the PPE. It is a very personal, basic thing. You have to wear a gown and then, for periods of time, chemical gown and chemical gloves, on top of that, and it gets hot, and you sweat. Then you have to go out into the office and look sweaty. So its embarassing. People hate this and they quit. I view this as a reasonable but Portland views it as aversion to work.

Tropical climates are the worst for wearing PPE. In Hsinchu, gowns get soggy, so nasty it makes my skin crawl. A fab in New York, or Dresden, is a better place for a fab because it’s a northern climate. Austin is an OK climate for a fab except for June, July and August. Phoenix is OK except for 8 months of the year. Ireland is fine, I imagine. Scotland used to have fabs; that is a great place for them.

I think a fab in Vancouver, BC (Canada) would be great. Japan has fabs in some northern places. This is where fabs should be. Then people won’t get soggy and quit and Portland won’t blame them.

I worked in manufacturing during this pandemic and hot and sweaty so probably that's one of the reasons you have disdain for me.

Some people have plenty of demands but they're unemployed. There are high turnover in offices and really have to constant need to such up to us really they need to such up to everyone the boss, the customers, the production,..... They have a lot of anxiety as well. You say this narrative that production has to go the office and beg permission but it's really the other way around. The head mechanic, technician is constantly hounded where he works and asked for favors and kissed up too.
 

Jert

Member
Nikkei Asia reports that Japan may get a 28 nm fab in Kumamoto (island of Kyushu in western Japan) to make image sensors for Sony.
This is a no-brainer for tsmc. they don't even need to buy new equipment. just relocate those from taiwan. fully depreciated, basically zero cost. and, it completely make sense to build a fab next to your biggest image sensor customer Sony, giving Sony the 100% confidence that they can 100% completely out-source to tsmc for manufacturing if they wish. there is practically zero downside for tsmc!
 

hkwint

Member
Germany is dependent on tsmc and Taiwan like everyone else.

First island chain is a big deal really that's what it's all about and both Taiwan as well as the Philippines are part of it. So yeah Taiwan would have a closer relationship with the Philippines than a country in Europe.

Just as I said, it has been confirmed: TSMC goes where the clients are.
Much more important than island chains, missiles and such.

Arizona --> Apple
Japan --> Sony
(Possible) Germany --> Car industry

 

Portland

Active member
Just as I said, it has been confirmed: TSMC goes where the clients are.
Much more important than island chains, missiles and such.

Arizona --> Apple
Japan --> Sony
(Possible) Germany --> Car industry


No one can afford cars anymore. You look at companies like BMW, mercades and Volkswagen. They make cars that run on gasoline with fine tolerance machinery and require a lot maintenance. There was a period of time if the consumer was looking for the smoothest ride possible they would go for a Germany made care but now they choose Teslas or other electric vehicles.

Mutual defense was a big issue for Taiwan setting up in Japan.
 

Andy1299

New member
Dumb question here (having shamefully never been inside a wafer fab) - aren't the fabs air conditioned (along with all the other air purification) ?
Yes they are, the temperature varies from fab to fab (back end fabs in Asia tend to be hotter) but it’s really the suit - a full plastic thing which by definition doesn’t breath so well. Sometimes you do feel like a chicken in clingfilm
 

Jumper

New member
No one can afford cars anymore. You look at companies like BMW, mercades and Volkswagen. They make cars that run on gasoline with fine tolerance machinery and require a lot maintenance. There was a period of time if the consumer was looking for the smoothest ride possible they would go for a Germany made care but now they choose Teslas or other electric vehicles.

Mutual defense was a big issue for Taiwan setting up in Japan.
I think the fab will be mostly made for Tesla and Volkswagen(which is quickly transitioning to electric).
 
Top