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TSMC Arizona struggles to overcome vast differences between Taiwanese and US work culture

Geopolitical risk is much lower than the Western world imagines. The Chinese have much lower territorial ambitions than the Western world. They ceded much of their land to Russia, Japan, Germany, etc., throughout history. Taiwan was ceded to Japan as a gift and returned after WWII. Therefore, they do not care as much about the island as you might think.
To increase chip manufacturing in the US, the first thing you need is a workforce to support it. Otherwise, you will need to import engineers and technicians from elsewhere, which might not work out well. TSMC is a result of Taiwanese engineers who were not satisfied with US fabs.
Nonsense.
 
Geopolitical risk is much lower than the Western world imagines. The Chinese have much lower territorial ambitions than the Western world. They ceded much of their land to Russia, Japan, Germany, etc., throughout history. Taiwan was ceded to Japan as a gift and returned after WWII. Therefore, they do not care as much about the island as you might think.
Uh huh. That's why they harass Taiwan with planes and ships, just to amuse themselves. Xi Jinping also just likes making a fool of himself by saying that "Reunification with Taiwan is inevitable." If what you're saying is true, why all of the drama and boasting? I think your position on China is nonsense.
To increase chip manufacturing in the US, the first thing you need is a workforce to support it. Otherwise, you will need to import engineers and technicians from elsewhere, which might not work out well. TSMC is a result of Taiwanese engineers who were not satisfied with US fabs.
TSMC is not the "result of Taiwanese engineers who were not satisfied with US foundries". TSMC was founded by Morris Chang, the Taiwan government, Philips (a Euro semi company), and some private investors, as the first independent chip foundry. It was a different business model than previously existed. As for the US workforce comments, well, other US fabs don't appear to be suffering from workforce shortages, unless you place a fab in a difficult to commute to place in southern Washington. :rolleyes: So I rate your entire second paragraph as nonsense.
 
Uh huh. That's why they harass Taiwan with planes and ships, just to amuse themselves. Xi Jinping also just likes making a fool of himself by saying that "Reunification with Taiwan is inevitable." If what you're saying is true, why all of the drama and boasting? I think your position on China is nonsense.
You may not be fully aware of Chinese politics. You can compare it with the U.S.'s two-party system. The Democrats and Republicans often appear to hate each other and seem like they want to destroy one another. However, in private, they can be friends and allies. For example, Bill Clinton attended Donald Trump's wedding and vice versa. They need to appear tough to secure votes from their targeted constituencies. Similarly, Taiwan's previous presidents frequently visit mainland China, and a similar dynamic exists there.

TSMC is not the "result of Taiwanese engineers who were not satisfied with US foundries". TSMC was founded by Morris Chang, the Taiwan government, Philips (a Euro semi company), and some private investors, as the first independent chip foundry. It was a different business model than previously existed. As for the US workforce comments, well, other US fabs don't appear to be suffering from workforce shortages, unless you place a fab in a difficult to commute to place in southern Washington. :rolleyes: So I rate your entire second paragraph as nonsense.
Chang was the Senior Vice President (SVP) of Texas Instruments (TI) in the 1980s and had no chance of getting promoted. That's why he decided to quit and return. Why is there no Indian version of TSMC? Because Indians fit in better in the US; they don't need to bother with all the hassles. They can be promoted to CEOs at any US companies due to their skin color and cultural advantage. Check how many Indian presidential candidates there are in 2024. Taiwanese engineers suffer similar discrimination in the US, and many of them choose to return.
 
You may not be fully aware of Chinese politics. You can compare it with the U.S.'s two-party system. The Democrats and Republicans often appear to hate each other and seem like they want to destroy one another. However, in private, they can be friends and allies. For example, Bill Clinton attended Donald Trump's wedding and vice versa. They need to appear tough to secure votes from their targeted constituencies. Similarly, Taiwan's previous presidents frequently visit mainland China, and a similar dynamic exists there.


Chang was the Senior Vice President (SVP) of Texas Instruments (TI) in the 1980s and had no chance of getting promoted. That's why he decided to quit and return. Why is there no Indian version of TSMC? Because Indians fit in better in the US; they don't need to bother with all the hassles. They can be promoted to CEOs at any US companies due to their skin color and cultural advantage. Check how many Indian presidential candidates there are in 2024. Taiwanese engineers suffer similar discrimination in the US, and many of them choose to return.
Hold on a moment. Isn't Lisa Su the CEO of AMD ? And Jensen Huang at nVidia ? And wasn't Lip-Bu Tan the CEO of Cadence ?

There are CEOs of both Indian and Chinese ethnicity in Silicon Valley today. And have been for some time. And rightly so. Most of them are doing a great job and are there on merit.

And there are equally many, many Indian and Chinese senior execs in these companies.

What you say might have been true in the 1980s. But I don't think it's that relevant today.
 
Hold on a moment. Isn't Lisa Su the CEO of AMD ? And Jensen Huang at nVidia ? And wasn't Lip-Bu Tan the CEO of Cadence ?

There are CEOs of both Indian and Chinese ethnicity in Silicon Valley today. And have been for some time. And rightly so. Most of them are doing a great job and are there on merit.

And there are equally many, many Indian and Chinese senior execs in these companies.

What you say might have been true in the 1980s. But I don't think it's that relevant today.
Huang is the founder, what you think?
Lisa is an exception.
Tan is the main investor in cadence.
Many companies reject Chinese ethnicity and Koreans, japanese as well. One main reason is the native language. Also culture and other factors. It's just a fact until today.
check the top management of TI, Micron, INTC, how many there? almost zero.
 
You may not be fully aware of Chinese politics. You can compare it with the U.S.'s two-party system. The Democrats and Republicans often appear to hate each other and seem like they want to destroy one another. However, in private, they can be friends and allies. For example, Bill Clinton attended Donald Trump's wedding and vice versa. They need to appear tough to secure votes from their targeted constituencies. Similarly, Taiwan's previous presidents frequently visit mainland China, and a similar dynamic exists there.
More nonsense.
Chang was the Senior Vice President (SVP) of Texas Instruments (TI) in the 1980s and had no chance of getting promoted. That's why he decided to quit and return. Why is there no Indian version of TSMC? Because Indians fit in better in the US; they don't need to bother with all the hassles. They can be promoted to CEOs at any US companies due to their skin color and cultural advantage. Check how many Indian presidential candidates there are in 2024. Taiwanese engineers suffer similar discrimination in the US, and many of them choose to return.
More nonsense, and you've revealed yourself as a racist. A more authoritative source than you are has this to say about Chang's history:


Morris Chang (born July 10, 1931, Ningbo, Zhejiang province, China) is a Chinese-born engineer, entrepreneur, and philanthropist who founded (1987) Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC), a leading maker of computer chips.

Chang originally wanted to become a writer, but his father dissuaded him from the idea. In 1949 Chang moved to the United States to attend Harvard University. He later transferred to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, where he earned B.S. (1952) and M.S. (1953) degrees in mechanical engineering. Chang landed a job at Texas Instruments as an engineering manager in 1958. He received a Ph.D. in electrical engineering from Stanford University in 1964.

In his 25 years at Texas Instruments, Chang rose steadily through the management ranks, eventually becoming senior vice president in charge of the company’s global semiconductor business. He left Texas Instruments in 1984 to become president of General Instrument Corporation, but a year later the government of Taiwan recruited him to take over as president of its Industrial Technology Research Institute.

Charged by the government with developing Taiwan’s fledgling semiconductor industry, Chang realized that electronics firms increasingly would need to outsource in order to cut costs, so he decided to create a company that would work under contract to meet the design needs of such firms by making chips and other electronic devices. With help from the government of Taiwan, he founded and became the first CEO of TSMC, which he built into one of the world’s most profitable chip makers.
My advice to you is that you should do some research, get your facts straight and know what you're talking about before posting here.
 
More nonsense.

More nonsense, and you've revealed yourself as a racist. A more authoritative source than you are has this to say about Chang's history:



My advice to you is that you should do some research, get your facts straight and know what you're talking about before posting here.
I'm sorry to say this, but it seems you didn't conduct enough research. Why would Chang leave his SVP job to join a non-profit in 1985? Was it for better pay? Could you explain it? If you lack logical skills, you might consider seeing some tutors for support. Simply calling everything you disagree with 'nonsense' is not useful.

In 1985 Morris Chang was recruited by the Taiwanese government to help develop the emerging semiconductor industry. In 1986 Morris joined the Hsinchu based non profit research institute ITRI as Chairman and President
 
I'm sorry to say this, but it seems you didn't conduct enough research. Why would Chang leave his SVP job to join a non-profit in 1985?
He didn't leave an SVP job for a non-profit. He left TI to become president of General Instrument. He left General Instrument to follow his passion of driving the creation of a chip industry in Taiwan which enabled his vision of an independent foundry.
Was it for better pay? Could you explain it? If you lack logical skills, you might consider seeing some tutors for support. Simply calling everything you disagree with 'nonsense' is not useful.
I just explained it.
 
He didn't leave an SVP job for a non-profit. He left TI to become president of General Instrument. He left General Instrument to follow his passion of driving the creation of a chip industry in Taiwan which enabled his vision of an independent foundry.
He didin't have much of passion of creating chip industry in TW. TW invited him twice. He rejected 1st time. 2nd time he was left with no option.
I just explained it.
There are some reports stating that he proposed a foundry model to the TI board, but it was not appreciated. He had to quit since the board later placed him in an irrelevant role. You can research it yourself. I can't provide you with all the resources for free. Can we call the TI board lacking in vision? Nevertheless, do you know what kind of company GI is? Is it a startup with 100 engineers or something? (looks like a joke from below reports)
There is no excuse for TI. Imagine an NBA team letting go of LeBron James or putting him on the bench.


General Instrument's financial difficulties continued in 1985 as the company reported revenues down 15.4 percent, to $848 million, and a $66.5 million loss. The company began to sell off a number of its units, including its money-losing semiconductor operations, and in February, 1986, General Instrument reorganized is upper management structure. This shuffle was the company's second difficult restructuring attempt in two years.
 
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He didin't have much of passion of creating chip industry in TW. TW invited him twice. He rejected 1st time. 2nd time he was left with no option.

There are some reports stating that he proposed a foundry model to the TI board, but it was not appreciated. He had to quit since the board later placed him in an irrelevant role. You can research it yourself. I can't provide you with all the resources for free. Can we call the TI board lacking in vision? Nevertheless, do you know what kind of company GI is? Is it a startup with 100 engineers or something? (looks like a joke from below reports)
There is no excuse for TI. Imagine an NBA team letting go of LeBron James or putting him on the bench.


General Instrument's financial difficulties continued in 1985 as the company reported revenues down 15.4 percent, to $848 million, and a $66.5 million loss. The company began to sell off a number of its units, including its money-losing semiconductor operations, and in February, 1986, General Instrument reorganized is upper management structure. This shuffle was the company's second difficult restructuring attempt in two years.
"There's no excuse for TI" ???

TI had a business to run. They didn't want to run a serious, large scale foundry operation. No one did at that time. Morris Chang was ultimately freed up to go and create one of the world's most successful businesses. In a place where it fitted and would thrive. Which it wouldn't have done at TI.

I'm really not sure what the "problem" is here.
 
"There's no excuse for TI" ???

TI had a business to run. They didn't want to run a serious, large scale foundry operation. No one did at that time. Morris Chang was ultimately freed up to go and create one of the world's most successful businesses. In a place where it fitted and would thrive. Which it wouldn't have done at TI.

I'm really not sure what the "problem" is here.
Chang could be an excellent candidate for the CEO role at TI, in addition to the foundry idea. The board should appreciate the opportunity of having a genius on their team and be flexible to accommodate him. The problem is that they are too rigid and may believe there are plenty of Morrises in their office. No one is irreplaceable, etc.
TI chose to be another mediocre company making trailing-edge products instead of becoming a great company that could change the world.
TI's problem is that it doesn't understand the value and difference between a genius and an average VP in this industry.
If TI had made the right move, this discussion wouldn't be necessary. All you need to do is ask TI to invest in a couple of new 2nm fabs somewhere in Texas or Arizona instead of sending taxpayers' dollars to TSMC.
 
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Chang could be an excellent candidate for the CEO role at TI, in addition to the foundry idea. The board should appreciate the opportunity of having a genius on their team and be flexible to accommodate him. The problem is that they are too rigid and may believe there are plenty of Morrises in their office. No one is irreplaceable, etc.
TI chose to be another mediocre company making trailing-edge products instead of becoming a great company that could change the world.
TI's problem is that it doesn't understand the value and difference between a genius and an average VP in this industry.
If TI had made the right move, this discussion wouldn't be necessary. All you need to do is ask TI to invest in a couple of new 2nm fabs somewhere in Texas or Arizona instead of sending taxpayers' dollars to TSMC.
Garbage.

It must have escaped your notice that TI is the largest/leading analog IC company today. Of course, I'm a little biased as an ex-TIer. And I'd prefer it if it were still a force in digital ICs. But better outstanding success in one field than being average at everything. If Tom Engibous and Rich Templeton were "average VPs", I'll happily take average. Frankly, I doubt you know what TI's options were at the time, whta the relative strengths and weaknesses or their execs were and what their priorities were. And there's no guarantee that Morris Chang would have been a good fit for what they wanted to do at the time. Management is largely about getting the right people in the right jobs at the right time.

If TI were as "rigid" as you claim, they'd never have made all the changes they have over the decades and adapted and survived. Kings of TTL. Transitioned to digital CMOS. Started the DSP revolution - which underpins modern digital ICs. Kings of digital wireless chips for a while. Major players in DRAM and successfully exited that business (while raking in $100 millions in patent fees over decades). Survived the decline of the wireless business and repositioned as an analog/mixed-signal giant. Other tech companies have not survived such major disruptions.

TI is also a product company. TSMC is not - it does not design or originate any products and takes no risk in that sense. Nothing wrong with that. Just different.

You're still doing it - confusing judgements about actions 30 or 40 years ago with what's going on today as if the companies and people are the same as they were then. Or indeed, that judging events that far in the past from today's values is meaningful or sensible.

As I said, garbage.
 
Garbage.

It must have escaped your notice that TI is the largest/leading analog IC company today. Of course, I'm a little biased as an ex-TIer. And I'd prefer it if it were still a force in digital ICs. But better outstanding success in one field than being average at everything. If Tom Engibous and Rich Templeton were "average VPs", I'll happily take average. Frankly, I doubt you know what TI's options were at the time, whta the relative strengths and weaknesses or their execs were and what their priorities were. And there's no guarantee that Morris Chang would have been a good fit for what they wanted to do at the time. Management is largely about getting the right people in the right jobs at the right time.

If TI were as "rigid" as you claim, they'd never have made all the changes they have over the decades and adapted and survived. Kings of TTL. Transitioned to digital CMOS. Started the DSP revolution - which underpins modern digital ICs. Kings of digital wireless chips for a while. Major players in DRAM and successfully exited that business (while raking in $100 millions in patent fees over decades). Survived the decline of the wireless business and repositioned as an analog/mixed-signal giant. Other tech companies have not survived such major disruptions.

TI is also a product company. TSMC is not - it does not design or originate any products and takes no risk in that sense. Nothing wrong with that. Just different.

You're still doing it - confusing judgements about actions 30 or 40 years ago with what's going on today as if the companies and people are the same as they were then. Or indeed, that judging events that far in the past from today's values is meaningful or sensible.

As I said, garbage.
what you said is all garbage.
It's like you missed chance to buy Nvidia and lost chance to make millions.
then you are saying you are not an investor who interested in that field.
If you are an Nvidia engineer who knows something about it and was offered RSU and rejected.
Then you are a fool.
that's the difference.
It's not like US don't need leading edge fabs. They need it but have no clue how to develop it.
Even when they had the opportunity, they missed it.
In this case you can not claim you are smart or something.
why is it so hard for you to admit a mistake. Is TI making all perfect decisions in it's history?
 
If TI were as "rigid" as you claim, they'd never have made all the changes they have over the decades and adapted and survived. Kings of TTL.
Before that, a significant player in germanium transistors, then became a leading player in silicon transistors, e.g. the first to sell them commercially. In the late 1950s IBM sold them an automated system IBM had developed in house to make those, judging TI to be better at running it.

A company that has been a leading manufacturer of semiconductors from the early 1950s to this very day objectively has a long term good management culture. The opposite of that may very well kill Intel as we know it.
 
When I read and came across this statement, I know I should and can skip reading the rest of your writings. It will be a total waste of my time lol.
I would do the same and watch a new episode of Toy Story if reading these writings confuses me.
 
Before that, a significant player in germanium transistors, then became a leading player in silicon transistors, e.g. the first to sell them commercially. In the late 1950s IBM sold them an automated system IBM had developed in house to make those, judging TI to be better at running it.

A company that has been a leading manufacturer of semiconductors from the early 1950s to this very day objectively has a long term good management culture. The opposite of that may very well kill Intel as we know it.
As of August 2024 Texas Instruments has a market cap of $192.36 Billion.
TSMC · Market Cap
776.21 billion USD


26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

28 “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. 29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

One major difference between US and Taiwanese work cultures that often stands out is the approach to driving for excellence versus being satisfied with the status quo. In TW, there is a strong cultural emphasis on innovation, continuous improvement, and the entrepreneurial spirit. This is reflected in the workplace where there is often a push to go above and beyond, to challenge existing norms, and to strive for excellence. The TW work culture tends to reward risk-taking and celebrates those who disrupt industries with new and better ways of doing things.

In contrast, US (TI) work culture has traditionally placed a high value on harmony, stability, and respect for established practices. While there is certainly a drive for excellence within US companies, there is also a greater acceptance of the status quo, especially when it maintains social cohesion and respects the collective workflow. This can lead to a more cautious approach to innovation and change, where incremental improvements are favored over radical shifts. The US work environment often emphasizes group consensus and may prioritize maintaining a stable and predictable business environment over aggressive expansion or re-invention.
 
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Chang was the Senior Vice President (SVP) of Texas Instruments (TI) in the 1980s and had no chance of getting promoted. That's why he decided to quit and return. Why is there no Indian version of TSMC? Because Indians fit in better in the US; they don't need to bother with all the hassles. They can be promoted to CEOs at any US companies due to their skin color and cultural advantage. Check how many Indian presidential candidates there are in 2024. Taiwanese engineers suffer similar discrimination in the US, and many of them choose to return.
Founder’s and Chang’s history is a unicorn, like Noyce, Grove and Moore, and Jensen as well as Lisa.

There are no exact parallels but lessons that need to be factored to today.

The reality is few of the Taiwanese assignees want to stay in Az. The few that do are driven primarily for their children. The majority are foreigners in a foreign land. Northern Phoenix is a desert of far east culture. If the fab was in a more Asian diverse place there would be some semblance of home, but none in Phoenix.

Go to the local 99Ranch any weekend which is many miles away and you can see many assignees so desperate to find a little of home in the desert. Even good eats are far and few for them. They do enjoy traveling but get scolded for sharing their travels by management, what a culture of oppression.

Fab21 assignees all aspire to get green card but what was promised was not provided. The culture at the was Az Fab is worse and harder than in Taiwan. The local hires are coddled to improve their moral and slow attrition which has been horribly high, but someone still has to do the hard work with less people that falls on the Taiwanese assignees. Only promotion oppritunities or children drive the few to want to stay long term. Most all want to go home, close to family, work more sane and not a foreigner in a foreign land.

We will see with reduction of benefits, lack of green card support how many assignees stay at Fab21, or if TSMC has to raise the benefits to get them to stay as a foreign in a foreign land and work harder than they ever had at home and for what ?
 
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Founder’s and Chang’s history is a unicorn, like Noyce, Grove and Moore, and Jensen as well as Lisa.

There are no exact parallels but lessons that need to be factored to today.

The reality is few of the Taiwanese assignees want to stay in Az. The few that do are driven primarily for their children. The majority are foreigners in a foreign land. Northern Phoenix is a desert of far east culture. If the fab was in a more Asian diverse place there would be some semblance of home, but none in Phoenix.

Go to the local 99Ranch any weekend which is many miles away and you can see many assignees so desperate to find a little of home in the desert. Even good eats are far and few for them. They do enjoy traveling but get scolded for sharing their travels by management, what a culture of oppression.

Fab21 assignees all aspire to get green card but what was promised was not provided. The culture at the was Az Fab is worse and harder than in Taiwan. The local hires are coddled to improve their moral and slow attrition which has been horribly high, but someone still has to do the hard work with less people that falls on the Taiwanese assignees. Only promotion oppritunities or children drive the few to want to stay long term. Most all want to go home, close to family, work more sane and not a foreigner in a foreign land.

We will see with reduction of benefits, lack of green card support how many assignees stay at Fab21, or if TSMC has to raise the benefits to get them to stay as a foreign in a foreign land and work harder than they ever had at home and for what ?

As far as you know, what's the TSMC Arizona attrition rate?
 
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