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The Semiconductor Heist Of The Century. (is there going to be a semiwiki follow up article on ARM China JV?)

soAsian

Member

I remembered I read an article on Semiwiki about ARM China JV. Is there going to be a follow up?

The news on Allen Wu and ARM China in this article is interesting. The article said 安谋科技 (ARM China) declare independent from ARM and is developing its own chip with its own IPs while ARM stop sending new IPs over to China.

I don't care for ARM or Masayoshi Son. Softbank made a deal with an known actor who steal/copy your IPs. ARM reap what it sow.

It will be funny if ARM China get bigger than ARM, turn around and bought out ARM.

What's your thoughts on this new development?
 
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VCT

Member
This is so strange that ARM China still announcing ARM v9. Why do ARM still support ARM China?
 

soAsian

Member
if you google 安谋科技 you get more detail in Chinese news about ARM China developing its own IPs while google ARM China didn't show much regarding ARM China going on its own.

this Chinese news: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.eet-china.com/news/12717.html

this image is interesting: https://www.eet-china.com/d/file/news/2021-08-26/20c9205f1af096aa7f63954333993f17.jpg

it look like ARM China going to build NPU, SPU, ISP and VPU all based on ARM.

Correct me if I'm wrong, even if ARM UK stop sending IPs to ARM China. ARM China can develop its own based on the existing IPs that they already pay for, correct? ARM China supposed to have 400 people on research/development. It won't be too hard for Chinese to extend/expand on existing ARM platform and make it their own, right?
 

soAsian

Member
found an English article on ARM China: https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/arm_s_arm_china_problem_has_just_gotten_much_worse/1

the source is People's daily online. so that's straight from the horse mouth.

"ARM's China problem has just taken a major turn for the worse, with Chinese Media reporting on Amou Technology (translation) and their plans to "promote the localization and ecological development of Arm CPU architecture" and "focus on independent research and development to create XPU products with independent architecture".

The problem with Amou Technology is that it is ARM China, ARM's rogue Chinese joint venture under Allen Wu. ARM China has rebranded itself under its rogue leader and intends to operate independently of ARM and create its own IP and products. "

LOL. this make me laugh. This is really the next level of Chinese's "technology transfer".
 
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count

Active member
if you google 安谋科技 you get more detail in Chinese news about ARM China developing its own IPs while google ARM China didn't show much regarding ARM China going on its own.

this Chinese news: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.eet-china.com/news/12717.html

this image is interesting: https://www.eet-china.com/d/file/news/2021-08-26/20c9205f1af096aa7f63954333993f17.jpg

it look like ARM China going to build NPU, SPU, ISP and VPU all based on ARM.

Correct me if I'm wrong, even if ARM UK stop sending IPs to ARM China. ARM China can develop its own based on the existing IPs that they already pay for, correct? ARM China supposed to have 400 people on research/development. It won't be too hard for Chinese to extend/expand on existing ARM platform and make it their own, right?
In theory, they could enter a licensing deal with ARM like Apple does and build their own architecture built around ARM IP, but China doesn't like paying royalties to the west.
 
I don't know of a single IP court in the world that has found China guilty of significant IP theft.

As to ARM China, check out their legal relationship before jumping to conclusions. As far as I know, it spent billions to buy its independent
Wow, this boggles the mind. China has absolutely no shame when it comes to IP theft.
 

tonyget

Member
ARM is facing big challenge from RISC-V in China, recently many Chinese companies started to develop RISC-V chip. So it is understandable for ARM to be more localize in order to maintain it's position in China, otherwise Chinese companies will see ARM as an unreliable source of IP which could cut off supply at anytime under US government order.
 

Arthur Hanson

Well-known member
China or SIMIC was found guilty in Alameda and Santa Clara county courts of IP theft from TSM. TSM was awarded shares of SIMIC and the right to block products for a number of years. YOU are 100% WRONG! I live close to both courts and have personally worked on their physical plant.
 
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count

Active member

soAsian

Member
I don't know of a single IP court in the world that has found China guilty of significant IP theft.

As to ARM China, check out their legal relationship before jumping to conclusions. As far as I know, it spent billions to buy its independent
How about SMIC vs TSMC lawsuit?
 

soAsian

Member
is there going to be two ARM ecosystem? one from UK and the other from China.

ARM China can only license to Chinese based company but the Chinese based company can sell chip with IPs licensed from ARM China.

What's stopping ARM China from selling below cost to anyone in China and overflow the market with ARM chip? What's stopping US or Euro companies from setting up a shop in China in order to get cheap ARM license?
 

hist78

Active member
I don't know of a single IP court in the world that has found China guilty of significant IP theft.

As to ARM China, check out their legal relationship before jumping to conclusions. As far as I know, it spent billions to buy its independent

Dear Godfree,

Can you and/or your family/friends/team/associates spend a little more time to do thorough research before posting your "opinions"? It will greatly improve the creditability and quality of your postings even if you are under the pressure of deadline or some other expectations. If you or your associates can't access Google, Bing, and Yahoo search engines easily, then please try use VPN to access them. I have to say those common Chinese search engines such as Baidu, Sogou, Shenma, or Haosou (360) try to filter out too much evil bad information in order to protect you but end up remove too much real and useful information.

If you can't access Google, Bing, and Yahoo and you can't use VPN, I think at least you can read the verdict handed down by "Beijing Higher Court" (北京市高级人民法院) in 2009 about SMIC suing TSMC for alleged unfair business practice related to the TSMC's lawsuit against SMIC's IP piracy.

URL Link:

The final verdict: TSMC won, SMIC lost. The Beijing Higher Court can't agree SMIC's reasons and evidences.

判决如下: 驳回中芯国际集成电路制造有限公司、中芯国际集成电路制造(上海)有限公司、中芯国际集成电路制造(北京)有限公司的诉讼请求。


And below is the second settlement announcement (in 2009, first one was in 2005) that SMIC and TSMC agreed. From the 2005 and 2009 settlements, SMIC paid US$335 million to TSMC and "both parties also agreed to terminate the patent cross-licensing agreement signed in 2005".

TSMC Announces Settlement of SMIC Trade Secret Litigation
 
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Barnsley

New member
I don't know of a single IP court in the world that has found China guilty of significant IP theft.

As to ARM China, check out their legal relationship before jumping to conclusions. As far as I know, it spent billions to buy its independent

Your Internet alarm go off again I see?

You still havent answered my question on how you got to this forum in the first place. However I now suspect you will be here full force should there be any article questioning anything to do with China.
 

Paul2

Active member
is there going to be two ARM ecosystem? one from UK and the other from China.

ARM China can only license to Chinese based company but the Chinese based company can sell chip with IPs licensed from ARM China.

What's stopping ARM China from selling below cost to anyone in China and overflow the market with ARM chip? What's stopping US or Euro companies from setting up a shop in China in order to get cheap ARM license?
No, the talk is now about ARM China making chips themselves, not the IP
 

mgoldsmith1979

New member
is there going to be two ARM ecosystem? one from UK and the other from China.

ARM China can only license to Chinese based company but the Chinese based company can sell chip with IPs licensed from ARM China.

What's stopping ARM China from selling below cost to anyone in China and overflow the market with ARM chip? What's stopping US or Euro companies from setting up a shop in China in order to get cheap ARM license?
IANAL but - one would assume that selling anything produced with these licenses outside of mainland China would be problematic. If you as a SoC designer / mfr are OK with that, then I don't see any limitations in using IP sourced this way. As far as "ecosystem", many vendors make IP that is AMBA compliant and can be integrated with ARM (or other) CPUs etc. So if this company is going to create additional IP that is AMBA compliant, for the domestic market only, then they are going to be up against folks like Verisilicon who are already operating in this space (with their own developed IP, that doesn't necessarily have legal encumbrances).
 

soAsian

Member
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