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Just released, Intel is attacking Apple, Again!

hist78

Well-known member

It's released about one day ago.

So Intel is counting Apple to become one of the new Intel Foundry's customer by attacking Apple?! While Apple is still a customer today and buying CPUs from Intel!

Where's Pat Gelsinger's leadership and vision? I'm lost.
 
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Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
Pat still thinks being "frenemies" is a legitimate business model which in the semiconductor industry it is not. Intel will learn this the hard way with TSMC. No way does Intel get into the TSMC inner circle like AMD is with the IDM 2.0 vision plan. Even more so with Apple. Apple does carry a grudge and Intel is on their grudge list, absolutely.
 

hist78

Well-known member
Pat still thinks being "frenemies" is a legitimate business model which in the semiconductor industry it is not. Intel will learn this the hard way with TSMC. No way does Intel get into the TSMC inner circle like AMD with the IDM 2.0 vision plan. Even more so with Apple. Apple does carry a grudge and Intel is on their grudge list, absolutely.

It makes more sense if this video attacking Apple was made by Microsoft. But for so many years Macs and Windows PCs are both built on Intel's CPUs. Why Intel is doing such attacking job on behalf of Microsoft?

Yes, Apple's M1 processor makes Intel unhappy.

But if one day Microsoft releases their own processors to run Windows OS, what will Intel do?

Intel needs to gain more partners not more enemies. This is especially critical for Intel's new foundry division.
 

slin

New member
This is so cringe. What kind of company runs attack ads against their customers?
The kind of company that stopped innovating and relies on marketing to stay afloat. Apple initially asked Intel to build iPhone processors which they refused. They gave them many years to produce processors for the Mac lineup but the performance and battery life only saw marginal improvements over the years. They gave them opportunity to build the new 5G modem/chips but Intel struggled and Apple had to take over. Not to mention many more companies are opting to design their own chips, Google, Amazon, Tesla, Apple, etc. Have to say, the outlook doesn't look so great for Intel.
 
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blueone

New member
Microsoft does the frenemy thing with Windows, by selling it embedded in the Surface products, while the primary market for Windows by far is the PC OEMs (Dell, Lenovo, etc.) But Microsoft doesn't run ads vilifying the PC vendors. Unfortunately for Intel and Pat G, I think they're so far down this path of antagonizing Apple that only a spin-out of the fabs is likely to patch things up.
 

soAsian

Member
It makes more sense if this video attacking Apple was made by Microsoft. But for so many years Macs and Windows PCs are both built on Intel's CPUs. Why Intel is doing such attacking job on behalf of Microsoft?

Yes, Apple's M1 processor makes Intel unhappy.

But if one day Microsoft releases their own processors to run Windows OS, what will Intel do?

Intel needs to gain more partners not more enemies. This is especially critical for Intel's new foundry division.
Wintel isn't what it used to be. Intel already pour their resources into Linux for a long time while Microsoft is getting cozy with Qualcomm.
 

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
in what way is Intel going to get punish or anything with TSMC? I don't think TSMC will turn down Intel since its a customer even if Intel is not a core customer.

It's not a punishment per say but a different level of access. The same goes for companies that are using both Samsung foundry and TSMC leading edge processes like QCOM and Nvidia. TSMC needs to protect their IP so it will be a different relationship than Apple or AMD who are exclusive to TSMC.
 

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
Microsoft does the frenemy thing with Windows, by selling it embedded in the Surface products, while the primary market for Windows by far is the PC OEMs (Dell, Lenovo, etc.) But Microsoft doesn't run ads vilifying the PC vendors. Unfortunately for Intel and Pat G, I think they're so far down this path of antagonizing Apple that only a spin-out of the fabs is likely to patch things up.

Intel could buy Globalfoundries as a separation between Intel and the foundry business. A pure-play foundry store front per say. Not that Apple would do business with Intel but GF has a decent customer list, ecosystem, and sales/support infrastructure.
 

blueone

New member
Intel could buy Globalfoundries as a separation between Intel and the foundry business. A pure-play foundry store front per say. Not that Apple would do business with Intel but GF has a decent customer list, ecosystem, and sales/support infrastructure.

I've often thought that a GF acquisition would be a good idea for Intel, because I don't think they know enough about making a foundry business successful to hit the ground running. GF leadership seems to have several folks with an IBM Microelectronics background, so they are more likely to understand foundry as a business.
 

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
I've often thought that a GF acquisition would be a good idea for Intel, because I don't think they know enough about making a foundry business successful to hit the ground running. GF leadership seems to have several folks with an IBM Microelectronics background, so they are more likely to understand foundry as a business.

Not only that, Intel has several key ex GF employees including Gary Patton, former GF CTO:


So GF is a known entity to Intel.
 

hist78

Well-known member
Pat still thinks being "frenemies" is a legitimate business model which in the semiconductor industry it is not. Intel will learn this the hard way with TSMC. No way does Intel get into the TSMC inner circle like AMD is with the IDM 2.0 vision plan. Even more so with Apple. Apple does carry a grudge and Intel is on their grudge list, absolutely.
I think Pat's "frenemies" idea can work only if the "frenemies" have no better choice or have no choice other than Intel Foundry Service.

Someone must knock on his door now to remind him that Intel is a new comer in the foundry business. Most of his potential foundry customers already got foundry partners elsewhere. And those foundries, big or small, are unique and strong in their own market segments.

To attack your own customers today then hope to build new business relationship next week with the same customers you attacked on is purely a fantasy.
 

Paul2

Active member
But if one day Microsoft releases their own processors to run Windows OS, what will Intel do?

Die? Remember, Intel was all over Maemo when the first hints of Windows on ARM came. They are "utterly aware"® of how dependent they are on WinTel.
 

Paul2

Active member
While their nest egg is the Xeon, it's a colossus on clay legs, which are their desktop dominance.

Once the consumer side, which really drives the silicon innovation, switches, there is no road back. The server market will switch in a few years as more performant cores will come over from the consumer side.
 

Portland

Active member
It makes more sense if this video attacking Apple was made by Microsoft. But for so many years Macs and Windows PCs are both built on Intel's CPUs. Why Intel is doing such attacking job on behalf of Microsoft?

Yes, Apple's M1 processor makes Intel unhappy.

But if one day Microsoft releases their own processors to run Windows OS, what will Intel do?

Intel needs to gain more partners not more enemies. This is especially critical for Intel's new foundry division.

Microsoft is building a hub with 2500 employees for that.
 

hist78

Well-known member
Just for fun, I checked the previous mentioned YouTube video performance. It's posted on October 4, 2021 and has been viewed 292,510 times. It also gathered 4.9K thumbs-up and 12K thumbs-down. Then I looked back all Intel vs Apple videos published by Intel in 2021.

Thumbs-up 4.7K
Thumbs-down 10K

Thumbs-up 4.6K
Thumbs-down 8.7K

Thumbs-up 6.4K
Thumbs-down 15K

Thumbs-up 2.9K
Thumbs-down 7.6K

Thumbs-up 3.1K
Thumbs-down 6.5K

I'm using YouTube daily for fun, for job, and for many random things like to learn how to repair my washing machine or to figure out why my car's tire pressure warning light is on while all 4 tires' pressure are normal. I have to say these anti Apple videos are getting an unusual, consistent, and negative feedbacks from YouTube audience. This kind of advertisement and the dismal performance should not happen repeatedly at any major corporations, let alone Apple is Intel's customer. What's Pat Gelsinger really thinking?!

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/int...titive-fun-going-on-with-apple-180914695.html

"Apple is a customer, and I hope to make them a big foundry customer because today they're wholly dependent on Taiwan Semiconductor. We want to present great options for them to leverage our foundry services, as well, just like we're working with Qualcomm and Microsoft to leverage our foundry. We're going to be delivering great technology, some things that can't be done anywhere else in the world," Gelsinger explained.

Yes, Apple is relying on TSMC for manufacturing chips. But Apple, just like any logical and reasonable persons, will have to to find a strong reason to work with someone who is having fun in backstabbing Apple repeatedly.
 
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I think Intel (Wintel?) are responding to AAPL M1 closed system
performance by making Intel's new Alder Lake i5 optimized for
just Windows closed system benchmarks. For my Verilog digital
simulator that is close to a universal machine, the optimizations
especially larger caches optimized for one OS work load is not faster.
The new Alder Lake has different types of cores some lower
power and some faster. I think for simulation the X86_64
approach of turning off processing units is better than
Apple's using a process optimized for power saving not speed
approach. Simulation servers do not have cooling problems.

Here is the Wccftech story on the Alder Lake i5:


Also, here is a story on a performance problem with AMD ryzen CPUs
on Windows 11 that is causing either Windows or AMD microcode to
be changed.


In my view this is not semiconductor improvement.
 

hist78

Well-known member
Yahoo Finance: Intel CEO: My job is to win Apple back.

Probably I'm too dumb to understand the modern practice of marketing and customer relationship. To win back Apple's business, from Pat Gelsinger's point of view, the first thing Intel must do is to have six YouTube videos to discredit Apple's products.

According to this Yahoo interview, Pat Gelsinger believes Intel must to have superior products that Apple can not make themselves in order win Apple's business. I disagree with his logic and thinking direction.

TSMC gets bigger and better is not because they keep attacking Apple, Qualcomm, Xilinx, Nvidia, AMD, or even Intel's products, features, and credibility. Actually TSMC has no semiconductor product that is better than any TSMC's customers'. In reality TSMC has no product that can compare/compete against TSMC's customers'.

If Pat's approach really makes sense, then I should have told my son that the best way to win back his ex girlfriend's heart is to badmouth her credibility, make her feel inferior to him, and make her to realize that he is so much powerful than her.

Am I too harsh on Intel?
 
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