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Intel to try to become a foundry again?

herbs88

Member
they are essentially rebooting the intel custom foundry business they discontinued in 2018 (iirc). it was proven a failure back then and I don’t quite understand what extra value it brings other than deceiving their shareholders
 

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
The extra value is the US and UK government push to have home court semiconductor manufacturing. In order for this to work it will require matching funds otherwise their will be no P on the foundry P&L. Commercially Intel has a very long road to foundry business profits as the competition is fierce. Samsung pricing is very hard to beat.
 

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
How do you think Intel Foundry Services will rate?


Foundry Profit 2020.jpg
 
P

Portland

Guest
The elephant in the room that no one will acknowledge is employee burnout.

If Intel tries to do what gaslinger said then they'll be burned out before anything is accomplished.

I assume people are already working around him and Intel is looking for a new CEO.
 

hist78

Well-known member
How do you think Intel Foundry Services will rate?


View attachment 413

If Intel wants to be near or above what TSMC has achieved on this chart, they have to recruit top TSMC's customers who can place huge orders and are willing to pay high premium for leading edge process.

Those potential Intel targets are Apple, AMD, Qualcomm, Nvidia, and MediaTek, etc.

Then here is the challenge:

1. Most of them, if not all of them, are having at least one development team for TSMC and one for Samsung. Are they going to maintain a third team just for Intel? Is it too complicated or too expensive?

2. From the target list, most of them are competing directly against Intel. Some of them have long history of unhappy memory towards Intel. Why on the earth suddenly they all fall in love with Intel just because Intel asks them to do so?
 

prime007

Active member
Pat Gelsinger did an interview yesterday on CNBC. He confirmed (see the linked YouTube video) that by 2024-2025, Intel will "absolutely" have scale & complete against the other foundries (TSMC, Samsung, Global Foundries, UMC, etc..) for customers. He added that he engaged in "big potentials" via e-mail and letting them know the next steps and asking them to start their designs at Intel.


Should be interesting to hear what TSMC's thoughts are on their "longtime customer" plans to become their direct competitor and steal their business on April 15.
 

hist78

Well-known member
Pat Gelsinger did an interview yesterday on CNBC. He confirmed (see the linked YouTube video) that by 2024-2025, Intel will "absolutely" have scale & complete against the other foundries (TSMC, Samsung, Global Foundries, UMC, etc..) for customers. He added that he engaged in "big potentials" via e-mail and letting them know the next steps and asking them to start their designs at Intel.


Should be interesting to hear what TSMC's thoughts are on their "longtime customer" plans to become their direct competitor and steal their business on April 15.
Pat Gelsinger is an honest person. He tells everyone that Intel will be your best friend. But he is also trying hard to tell everyone up front that Intel is going to kill you when time is right. Don't say he didn't warn you.

Visionary or arrogance?
 
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P

Portland

Guest
Pat Gelsinger is an honest person. He tells everyone that Intel will be your best friend. But he is also trying hard to tell everyone up front that Intel is going to kill you when time is right. Don't say he didn't warn you.

Visionary or arrogance?

He lied about in the matter of Intel outsourcing to tsmc. He made spending claims about two new fans in Arizona. The foundry claim and the 7nm vaporware claims that will only be made from tsmc. HOW IS THIS GUY NOT ACCOUNTABLE FOR ANYTHING?

Pat gelsinger makes claims that are refuted in press releases the same night or next day.
 
P

Portland

Guest
Last edited by a moderator:

hskuo

Active member
What I saw from this strategic with part of IFS in IDM 2.0 is
1) The trend of "Chips made from my Country" which includes US, China, Europe, Japan and others. Intel has wafers fab in Ireland and Israel besides US. For 14/22nm nodes, tool
depreciation should be complete and the government subsidy is expected. It could be lucrative. From tsmc model, mature nodes provide above average GM which could be cash
cow.
2) Chip shortage in the industry recently could last for around 1 year, intel can take this advantage to engage with potential customers with less competition concerns.
3) If eventually decided to become Fab-lite in the future, this standalone IFS will be ready then to spin-off.
Key for all above is "execution" "execution" and "execution".
 

tooLongInEDA

Moderator
The elephant in the room that no one will acknowledge is employee burnout.

If Intel tries to do what gaslinger said then they'll be burned out before anything is accomplished.

I assume people are already working around him and Intel is looking for a new CEO.
I don't know the company at all first hand, but I find this surprising. Looking in from outside, it does rather look like an awful lot of engineering time and money has been - if not exactly wasted - then not used very profitably (Intel is one of the few companies that can actually afford such luxuries).

But that can't be much fun for the engineers there. What could be worse for an engineer than the past few years than working on projects that never really worked out ? Or desperately trying to fix vital problems (10nm/7nm) and not being able to make any real headway ? No implied criticism of the engineers at the coal face here who I'm sure are capable and doing there best.

In these circumstances, surely something has to be changed.

Someone new (well not quite new) comes along and wants to make changes and show some technical leadership and that's bad for morale ?

Again, looking from outside, Intel doesn't look short of people, talent or money. Get the right people in the right roles and improve some of the decision making (certainly on the 10nm/7nm side) and things must improve. I don't see at all that means working harder or burnout. Smarter perhaps. Hard work is bearable if it's meaningful and rewarding.
 
" He added that he engaged in "big potentials" via e-mail and letting them know the next steps and asking them to start their designs at Intel."
Does that mean the Intel 7nm process' PDK is ready to go? I am under the impression that the 7nm process is still in major revision.
 

prime007

Active member
Does that mean the Intel 7nm process' PDK is ready to go? I am under the impression that the 7nm process is still in major revision.

It doesn't sound like Intel has a PDK ready to go. A March 23rd article snippet from Anandtech (https://www.anandtech.com/show/1657...ndry-services-ibm-collaboration-return-of-idf):
Intel today will have partnership announcements with Cadence and Synopsys to enable industry standard design tools (EDA tools) and workflows such that customers can use industry standard process development kits (PDKs) to build their silicon designs. This is part of the job that some of Intel’s hires have recently been enabling, such as Renduchintala, Keller, and Koduri. Intel is committing to embracing the entire EDA ecosystem to ease new customers into the use of Intel’s foundry tools.
 
P

Portland

Guest

Says that Intel will outsource 7nm to tsmc immediately and homemade is planned for 2023.

It will be interesting to see if parts of Intel will adapt and survive or end up being another Compaq.
 

hist78

Well-known member
INTEL Hsinchu is now hiring for many Senior Positions:

Logic design, physical design, foundry engineering, testing engineering, DFT engineering, quality assurance, foundry or OSAT operational management, commercial management, and many other more. (https://lnkd.in/g8yyEyy)

#hiring #hiringnow #hiringengineers #hiringtalent #hiring2021
intel hiring
It's long overdue. TI, Micron, Google, Apple, Microsoft, Applied Materials, and ASML all have major R&D, operations, and/or manufacturing presence in Taiwan for obvious reasons.

Intel has been all over the place except in Taiwan. If Intel can do so much in Ireland and Israel, why they did so little in Taiwan? Do they intentionally avoid utilizing engineering talents in Taiwan?

Some people might worry any possible CCP's attack on Taiwan. But for more than 70 years there's no any single bomb or missle landed in Taiwan.

On the other hand it's interesting to see that Intel isn't worry anything about their fabs in Israel at all. Even there were 2600 rocket attacks on Israel in 2018 and 2019 alone.

 
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