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Intel boxed out Apple and AMD?

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
Absolute nonsense. TSMC raised CAPEX to accommodate Intel at 3nm and I can assure you the Apple and AMD wafer agreements pre dated Intel's and will be honored as such.

“One lie has the power to tarnish a thousand truths.” And social media is a scourge of lies that overpowers truth, absolutely.

Here's another lie filled article. These people get paid per click so there is no room for the truth:


Clearly this is a pro Intel push trying to spread AMD FUD, my opinion. The funny thing is that it's an Intel failure that brought them to TSMC and it is going to be very difficult for Intel to go back to internal manufacturing. TSMC and the surrounding ecosystem is very sticky.

For the first time AMD and Intel will be on the same process node so it will be a design competition. AMD has the advantage since N3 is their third TSMC node (N7, N5, and N3) and it will be Intel's first.

It will also be a manufacturing contest between Intel and TSMC since similar Intel designs will be on Intel 4 and TSMC N3. This really is a disruptive move by Intel that could very well push them to a fab light model, absolutely.
 

hist78

Well-known member
Absolute nonsense. TSMC raised CAPEX to accommodate Intel at 3nm and I can assure you the Apple and AMD wafer agreements pre dated Intel's and will be honored as such.

“One lie has the power to tarnish a thousand truths.” And social media is a scourge of lies that overpowers truth, absolutely.

Here's another lie filled article. These people get paid per click so there is no room for the truth:


Clearly this is a pro Intel push trying to spread AMD FUD, my opinion. The funny thing is that it's an Intel failure that brought them to TSMC and it is going to be very difficult for Intel to go back to internal manufacturing. TSMC and the surrounding ecosystem is very sticky.

For the first time AMD and Intel will be on the same process node so it will be a design competition. AMD has the advantage since N3 is their third TSMC node (N7, N5, and N3) and it will be Intel's first.

It will also be a manufacturing contest between Intel and TSMC since similar Intel designs will be on Intel 4 and TSMC N3. This really is a disruptive move by Intel that could very well push them to a fab light model, absolutely.

I have to "assume" TSMC is smart enough after 34 years in business and after Intel constantly accusing "foundries in Asia" for various things, they will not allow Intel to squeeze out other TSMC's major customers.
 

hist78

Well-known member
That means Intel ($217 billion market cap) is forcing TSMC ($547 billion market cap) to box out Apple ($2.46 trillion market cap)?!

How can that happen? If Intel can do that, I think I can tell Jeff Bezos to report to me in person tomorrow morning.
 

slin

New member
I wouldn't worry too much about it, I'm sure TSMC will give Apple and AMD priority access to their 2 nanometer nodes when it becomes viable couple years down the road.
 
But Pat Gelsinger said the majority of Intel products will be manufactured by Intel? What is going on here? :ROFLMAO:
"Read my lips - No New Taxes".
I'm not 100% certain, but he may have held to that: just increased the old ones instead.

Returning to the matter in hand:
"The majority of Intel products will be manufactured by Intel" does not mean the same as
"The majority of Intel product will be manufactured by Intel"

The following is not what is going to happen, but Intel could make one sample of each product and not merely the majority, but every Intel product will have been manufactured by Intel.
 

Jumper

Member
"Read my lips - No New Taxes".
I'm not 100% certain, but he may have held to that: just increased the old ones instead.

Returning to the matter in hand:
"The majority of Intel products will be manufactured by Intel" does not mean the same as
"The majority of Intel product will be manufactured by Intel"

The following is not what is going to happen, but Intel could make one sample of each product and not merely the majority, but every Intel product will have been manufactured by Intel.
That is pretty sneaky. As for the financial situation, I wonder if the cooperation with TSMC is going to help them or hurt their financials as they basically lose some advantages of vertical integration.
 

count

Active member
That is pretty sneaky. As for the financial situation, I wonder if the cooperation with TSMC is going to help them or hurt their financials as they basically lose some advantages of vertical integration.
I think it'll help their financials honestly. My understanding is that Intel fabs are at a significant cost disadvantage. I don't see major advantages in 2021 to being vertically integrated as a foundry.
 

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
I think it'll help their financials honestly. My understanding is that Intel fabs are at a significant cost disadvantage. I don't see major advantages in 2021 to being vertically integrated as a foundry.

The last numbers I saw on Intel versus TSMC wafer costs ranged between 20-30% meaning it costs TSMC 20-30% less than Intel. I don't know what the TSMC margin is on wafers they sell to Intel but I can tell you that it will not be less than Apple due to the Apple-TSMC most favored nation agreement.
 

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
Here is the original article that caused all of this nonsense:


I have no idea how this article came out of it even though it's sited:

 

Portland

Active member
What I read was Intel will be a year behind apple with tsmc nodes. In a short term apple benefits from the tsmc partnership. In the long term competition and consumers will benefit at Apple's expense.
 

Portland

Active member
Intel is an aging company with all its revenues in past products and derivatives. People dependent on Intel need to be afraid.
 
Here is the original article that caused all of this nonsense:
That UDN report said nothing about “box out ….”. We all know that is not how it works in the foundry business.

There is nothing new about Intel’s 3nm order however that report did fill in more detail about the order. It said Intel has completed 3 CPUs and 1 GPU engineering runs in TSMC Fab 12 and is ready to move to Fab18B in 2022/7. The initial order is 4k.

If true, my interpretation is that the Intel CPU design team is learning how to work with the foundry by taking part in the risk production of 3nm. Apparently, the team is satisfied with the engineering samples. Wafer agreements for 2023 should be set by now. Indeed, with the level playing field, the CPU design competition is on.
 

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
That UDN report said nothing about “box out ….”. We all know that is not how it works in the foundry business.

There is nothing new about Intel’s 3nm order however that report did fill in more detail about the order. It said Intel has completed 3 CPUs and 1 GPU engineering runs in TSMC Fab 12 and is ready to move to Fab18B in 2022/7. The initial order is 4k.

If true, my interpretation is that the Intel CPU design team is learning how to work with the foundry by taking part in the risk production of 3nm. Apparently, the team is satisfied with the engineering samples. Wafer agreements for 2023 should be set by now. Indeed, with the level playing field, the CPU design competition is on.

I used Google translate on the article but could not translate the graphic. What did it say? My understanding was that the Intel products are on the client side not the server side. If I had to bet the over/under on who ships N3 based chips by Jan 1, 2023 I would say Apple under, Intel over, and AMD way over.
 
I used Google translate on the article but could not translate the graphic. What did it say? My understanding was that the Intel products are on the client side not the server side. If I had to bet the over/under on who ships N3 based chips by Jan 1, 2023 I would say Apple under, Intel over, and AMD way over.
The whole report is pretty much summarized again in that graph. If we look at the issue from the CPU design team’s point of view, they are handicapped by the incompetence of the process division. We know the problem is “staying away from EUV for too long”. Now, with 3nm at their disposal, they must show the world they know how to design. These 3 CPUs (server or client sides) should be the most important 3 in their product lines. One other thing is where the packaging/testing was done? Internal, TSMC, or third party. This should tell us how strong Intel’s packaging division is.

As for the competitive landscape, AMD’s design strategy is very consistent and clear: chiplet everything. Chiplet CPU (Zen 3 and above) has been shown to be superior in multicore applications than its monolithic counterpart. All eyes will be on the upcoming RDNA 3 if the first chiplet GPU is delivered as promised. Also, we should not be surprised if we see chiplet FPGA in the future. How other HPC companies stand against AMD’s chiplet assault will be very interesting.
 

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
From the same publication that brought you:


 
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