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Different Modems in iPhone, Different Performance

Arthur Hanson

Well-known member
Not only is there a difference in the memory of the iPhone, there is difference in the modem. If you get a iPhone, you definitely want to get the better memory and the better modem. Sadly, for Intel, they still have a lot to learn in the mobile game. I hope they do better with their 3dXpoint memory, for Intel really needs a world class winning product at this point in time. Also Apple should stick to best in class to avoid the fates of Motorola and Nokia.

Qualcomm's iPhone 7 Plus modem beats Intel modem in areas with weak signal
 
We do not know the quid pro quo that led Apple to use Intel's modem. My *guess*, and I stress that it's only a guess, is that the real story here is that what Apple got in return was some level of access to Intel's base band cells, and thus the ability at some future point to integrate those onto the A# chip.

Of course this isn't really progress (except insofar as it makes the phone slightly smaller and cheaper to manufacture) unless that base band gets improved, so I'm assuming the relationship is not purely a licensing of the cells, but permission to use them as a starting point to modify them in whatever way Apple desires.

The question, then, is whether Apple can do as good a job as QC once they have this control.
On the positive side, you could argue that they've managed to to pretty well with the CPU, the GPU, the ISP, the motion sensor coprocessor, etc; and they appear to be willing to pay the higher costs (in process, in area) to embody the best feasible algorithms on their chips. Which would suggest that they can attract top base-band engineers, and can tell them to go more-or-less wild in implementing state of-the-art in Apple silicon.
On the negative side, the first question is: how long does this take? Two years (so we see the esults in the A12) is maybe OK. Five years of sub-optimal modems before we get the good stuff is problematic...
The second question is how much of the good stuff is Qualcomm IP protected? And because it's not ESSENTIAL implementation, just best implementation, it isn't subject to FRAND licensing.
The third, related, question, is how much of the good stuff is only known within QC --- it's not patented, it's not published, it's just trade secrets learned from so many years of being in this business?

I guess we're going to see over the next few years...

(It is also important, I think, to distinguish between "measurable different performance" and "not good enough performance". There's obviously a certain crowd that take it as a personal insult if their equipment is not state of the art along whatever dimension they're chosen to prioritize; but that's a small fraction of the buying public. What matters in the real world is the extent to which this inferior modem results in a clearly inferior experience. Given how uneven the cellular experience is anyway, under normal conditions, it's going to be very rare that people (even people both on the same carrier, but one of them just happens to have the Intel modem and the other has the QC modem) are going to be doing something so identical that they will really experience the difference.

I suspect, at the end of the day, this will be a re-run of the TSMC vs Samsung A9's. Interesting to a tiny group of people who really care about fab details; supposedly the most important thing in the world to a small group of fanatics bent on proving how their team is superior to the other team; and UTTERLY irrelevant to the wider world, to Apple's sales, and to the normal iPhone experience.)
 
QCT has many commercially important patents that are not SEPs. Not all are offered in their royalty basket. No one has greater modem proficiency.
Intel has failed at mobile integration, and lagged in discrete modem technology, so why would Apple turn to them for integration? I've heard that speculation elsewhere, but find it farfetched.
What should disturb all fanboys and fangirls, however, is why Apple dual sourced modems this year at all? Apple already drains most of the industry's profits, and doesn't use QCT's best parts. My assumption is Intel made them a mob offer, that they "couldn't refuse". That contra-revenue revelation at earnings suggests subsidization, bundling with incentivized computer chip pricing, or even give-away losses for bragging rights.
Apple has shown abject disdain for the purchasers of its overpriced iPhones. That can't be a good long term strategy.
 
I wonder if Apple will finally learn a lesson here? Putting a 20nm (QCOM) modem in one U.S. carrier's phone and a 28nm (Intel) modem in another? And to what end? To teach QCOM a lesson? Splitting the A9 between Samsung and TSMC I understand, neither fab could guarantee the required capacity. Apple could have used a cheaper 28nm QCOM modem that would better match Intel's? I'm sure we will find out the real reason Apple split the modem business but from here it looks to be a mistake.
 
Daniel, process node is one aspect, but there are also many tricks QCT has that Intel/Infineon/Ceva will never know.
 
More than understanding Apple, I wonder what are the reasons for Intel to be playing in this market. They could not win the SoC side of the mobile business which is what they know best, what makes Intel think the modem business is something to go after? They dropped the SoC roadmap but kept the modem roadmap?

Am I being too narrow-minded?
 
I think the smartphone manufacturers (and chip makers) should never forget that the Modem is the essential function in a mobile phone, as the modem supports communication.
In other words, we could say "Don't mess with modem"!

For those who remember, TI has failed the design of the 3G modem chip and the cost was huge. TI has moved from being #1 on a multi-$billion business to exiting this business in less than 5 years... My message to Apple!

View attachment 18442
If you look at the above picture, you realize that using Intel modem in iPhone 7 really gives worst results
 
Cellular Insights invested a lot of time and money testing those phones - normally that sort of information isn't available to the public (unless you pay for it). I believe it's the first time we've seen smartphone modems compared in such detail. It's a pity they didn't measure power consumption... but anyway it just shows you how much attention Apple products receive.
 
What this data confirms is that Apple likely selected the Intel modem for strategic reasons, as opposed to it being the best component. If this is the case, the bigger picture question goes back to the sustainability of Intel's mobile business. You can't build a competitive business mobile business with only one major customer, even if that customer is Apple. Whatever strategic rationale Apple had in selecting the Intel modem is probably unique to Apple, and it seems unlikely that this part is going to be attractive to anyone else unless it is much cheaper than the competition or Intel subsidizes it with contra revenue. Intel is does not have a low cost structure, so it seems unlikely they can compete as a low cost supplier. So where does this leave Intel's mobile ambitions? Even if Intel's mobile losses have shrunk, they are still running over $2b a year. That's a lot of money to stay in the game, especially when it's not clear you can ever be a viable competitor.
 
Intel is spending to buy a market position in wearables and 5G connectivity. How can they go after that business without a discrete modem portfolio?
 
Intel is spending to buy a market position in wearables and 5G connectivity. How can they go after that business without a discrete modem portfolio?
How can they go after that business without a competitive SoC? Is the wearable's market even interested in a discrete modem? The majority of 5G use cases I can think of will also demand an SoC vs a discrete modem. IMO Intel killed their chances in 5G when they killed their SoC.
 
The history of the modem in the iPhone begins with the Infineon modem, back when the iPhone was exclusive to AT&T. In 2007 and 2008, this was a big deal at Infineon, which I recall because I worked there at the time. It was the best CDMA-alternative (GSM, HDSP, etc) modem.

Then Qualcomm played the spoiler and became the exclusive iPhone modem supplier. Initially, their GSM modem wasn't that great, similar to the Intel modem today. They invented and push CDMA technology. They built on this advantage, but in technology, advantages don't last forever, and the next thing may lean away from CDMA tech.

Infineon sold their modem technology to Intel.

The thread indicates there are lots of tricks in modems. I agree. But the assumption is Qualcomm has all the tricks in both CDMA and CDMA alternatives. I disagree here and would propose that Intel carries an advantage in the CDMA alternatives, used by AT&T and T-Mobile in the US, and dominant in Europe. So it makes sense to Apple to have two modems, playing to different strengths, and invest in both supply bases.
 
To me, that's revisionist history. QCT's strength extends far beyond CDMA 1x/Ev-DO. The original Infineon modem for the iPhone was Edge/GSM, later UMTS/Edge/GSM. As you know, all 3G flavors of CDMA originated with Qualcomm's pioneering work - CDMA EV-DO, UMTS (WCDMA/3GSM), and TD-SCDMA. That's why QTL derives device based royalties from all 3G/4G devices sold globally. and Infineon/Intel do not.No one has ever built a better 3G modem than Qualcomm, irrespective of the flavor.
So let's move on to LTE modems, so-called 4G. Based upon its internal development work, and its purchase of Flarion, Qualcomm has also consistently built the first, and best, LTE modems. Infineon could not compete as the technologies advanced, and the multi-mode fallback demands increased. QCT has consistently made the best 3G/4G modems, and the same is likely to continue into 5G.
 
My take on it is as follows. As transistor count increases, and the number of bands increases, as an increasing number of functions are integrated with the modem, these chips are becoming more and more complex and the development costs are increasing exponentially. If you don't have the volumes to spread those development costs across, you can't afford to stay in the game. Demand for modems is primarily coming from SoCs as opposed to discrete modems. The iPhone is the only flagship phone I can think of that has one, and think about it. The iPhone contains the following separate chips:A series applications processorIntel discrete modemBroadcomm connectivityNXPI NFC chipA single Qualcomm Snapdragon SoC provides ALL of that functionality, with the exception of NFC. But with the purchase of NXPI, they may integrate NFC into a future Snapdragon.Apples premium pricing means they can afford the extra BOM costs associated with all the extra chips, but everyone else is going to have the modem and all the connectivity in an SoC. How many other discrete modem sockets are out there? Not nearly as many as there are SoC sockets.
 
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JeffreyHF gave a very good perspective, and I would like to add that Intel spent a lot pushing WiMax as the 4G technology to bet on (although initially WiMax was not a true mobile solution, it was more for stationary clients but then they developer all the variations of WiMax including a full mobile one).

JeffreyHF's opinion of Intel going after the wearables market makes sense, but I would replace wearables with IoT, specially if you look at the Atom A3900, that one is for IoT and not wearables and with all its special functions I believe Intel spent a lot in R&D. From their latest earnings call, IoT seems to be a big business for Intel already and among the fastest growing one, I just can't see the wearables part of IoT to offer the kind of margins Intel wants.
 
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