Chipmaker TSMC needs to hire 4,500 Americans at its new Arizona plants. Its ‘brutal’ corporate culture is getting in the way

[lilo777]

New article on Yahoo (Fortune):

Chipmaker TSMC needs to hire 4,500 Americans at its new Arizona plants. Its ‘brutal’ corporate culture is getting in the way

The chip giant says its Arizona hiring is on schedule, but recruiters say the company is a hard sell.

finance.yahoo.com

Quote:
TSMC’s U.S. operations have earned a 27% approval rating on Glassdoor from 91 reviews—meaning that less than a third of its reviewers would encourage others to work there. Intel, one of TSMC’s main rivals, has an 85% approval rating, albeit from tens of thousands more reviews.

 

[nghanayem]

I don't know why this is a shock to people. It really baffles me. Yeah you work 12 hour shifts, yeah you work weekends, and yes you get paid less than a chip designer or programmer. But the last time this wasn't the case in the semi manufacturing industry was in the 80s for crying out loud. The pay and conditions sound pretty par for the course to me. What is less acceptable is the possibility that TSMC might not be a psychologically safe place to innovate. However based on how unlikely that sounds from a company with as relentless execution as TSMC I would bet that their sources were just folks with axes to grind.

It also made me chuckle seeing Dylan Patel quoted as a "semiconductor expert". By that metric I suppose we are all semiconductor savants .

 

[lilo777]

I don't know why this is a shock to people. It really baffles me. Yeah you work 12 hour shifts, yeah you work weekends, and yes you get paid less than a chip designer or programmer. But the last time this wasn't the case in the semi manufacturing industry was in the 80s for crying out loud. The pay and conditions sound pretty par for the course to me. What is less acceptable is the possibility that TSMC might not be a psychologically safe place to innovate. However based on how unlikely that sounds from a company with as relentless execution as TSMC I would bet that their sources were just folks with axes to grind.

It also made me chuckle seeing Dylan Patel quoted as a "semiconductor expert". By that metric I suppose we are all semiconductor savants .

I guess, the interesting question is how well TSMC culture can be reproduced in USA.

 

[hist78]

I hope you know Glassdoor.com can't really verify the persons' true employment history for those who provided Glassdoor information on their claimed employment experience/opinions and salary for a particular company.

Any serious journalists ( and bloggers) won't use information posted on Glassdoor as a base to write a meaningful article.

 

[hist78]

In 2016 Intel let go 12,000 employees in order to cut the cost.

In 2022 and 2023, Intel has been cutting a significant number of employees out of the payroll in order to trim $10 billion cost annually.

TSMC doesn't lay off employee except a small one in 2009 (all were hired back in the same year and CEO Rick Tsai was forced out later).

Yet, according to Glassdoor, TSMC employees hate TSMC.

Yet, according to Glassdoor, it seems like those tens of thousands people who were fired by Intel still love Intel deeply.

Is it real?

 

[Daniel Nenni]

Higher turnover during the pandemic? What a shock.

What I see here is a concerted effort to besmirch TSMC. If you can't compete besmirch, it's a coward move.

And since when is Intel one of TSMC's main rivals? Intel is one of TSMC's big customers. Intel has many rivals, they don't need another one. TSMC's biggest rival is unethical media desperate for attention.

This article is complete nonsense.

 

[Daniel Nenni]

I don't know why this is a shock to people. It really baffles me. Yeah you work 12 hour shifts, yeah you work weekends, and yes you get paid less than a chip designer or programmer. But the last time this wasn't the case in the semi manufacturing industry was in the 80s for crying out loud. The pay and conditions sound pretty par for the course to me. What is less acceptable is the possibility that TSMC might not be a psychologically safe place to innovate. However based on how unlikely that sounds from a company with as relentless execution as TSMC I would bet that their sources were just folks with axes to grind.

It also made me chuckle seeing Dylan Patel quoted as a "semiconductor expert". By that metric I suppose we are all semiconductor savants .

Overtime during a pandemic? How else do you run fabs at 110%? Now that utilization is down to 70% they must be relieved. Except that a big part of TSMC's comp plan is bonuses based on the performance of the company so it is not just salary. And you can bet those bonuses were big during the shortage period.

CHAT GPT Dylan Patel:

I'm sorry, but I couldn't find any specific information about a person named "Dylan Patel" in my pre-September 2021 knowledge. It's possible that this person may not be widely known or may be a private individual. If you have any additional context or specific questions about Dylan Patel, please provide more details, and I'll do my best to assist you.

 

[benb]

Agree this article is nonsense.

There is a discussion to be had about cultures, and what the semiconductor industry is, and what manufacturing, broadly is.
Culture: MacGregor model: You can motivate two ways, one way is with money and punishment, if you assume people are lazy and won't work unless prodded. The other way is to assume people enjoy work and will work better when given freedom and agency. Engineers expect the second model. There is disappointment when freedom and agency is not on offer, that is what Glassdoor is reflecting.

Manufacturing, which semiconductors is the most refined and advanced version of, in my opinion, is a hybrid of the two models; You need innovation to compete and even match existing facility production output and quality, which requires the second model (freedom to make changes, agency to succeed and fail). And you need the money and punishment aspect to meet deadlines and sustain the boring parts of manufacturing, the day-in-day-out grind. Combining these two opposites well is a challenge, and it is simplistic to say, we want the second model and it should be enough. It isn't enough. I wish it were too, but it just isn't.

A more informed look at what TSMC is doing, offering 12 months of one-the-job training, is unprecedented, expensive, and uniquely pro-worker. TSMC is setting their engineers up for success, although they still have to grind it out.

Ramping a new facility is also uniquely challenging. That is also missed by this article. Recall Elon Musk sleeping in his office during the Model 3 ramp in Fremont. After the ramp, TSMC workers will like the culture better, and I think it will be regarded as pro-worker.

 

[Daniel Nenni]

TSMC touts balanced work environment amid 'brutal' condition claims in U.S.​

Taipei, June 5 (CNA) Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. (TSMC), the world's largest contract chipmaker, issued a statement Monday on the balanced life environment it provides its employees, in response to a Fortune article over the weekend in which several former and current employees in the United States were quoted complaining about the company's "brutal" corporate culture.

In the statement, TSMC said average work hours at the company have not exceeded 50 hours a week over the past two years with only a few exceptions, such as when the company introduces a new technology process or speeds up its pace building a new plant. In such situations, a ceiling of 60 weekly working hours is observed.

TSMC said it is the company's unshirkable responsibility to provide employees with a balanced life environment, and with ongoing efforts to expand production worldwide the chipmaker is aware its top priority is to cultivate and manage cross-border talent.

According to TSMC, it currently has a workforce of more than 70,000 employees worldwide.

An office building at TSMC's site in Arizona is seen in this photo taken on Dec. 6, 2022 when the site is open to press for the first time. CNA file photo

The statement came after Fortune magazine cited messages posted by former and current TSMC employees in the U.S. on an online job search website as reporting over the weekend that they worked 12 hours a day, and weekend shifts were nothing special.

"People ... slept in the office for a month straight," a TSMC engineer was quoted by Fortune from a message posted to Glassdoor in August. "Twelve-hour days are standard, weekend shifts are common. I cannot stress ... how brutal the work-life balance is here."

"TSMC is about obedience [and is] not ready for America," Fortune reported, quoting a message posted by another TSMC engineer in January.

Fortune noted that TSMC's U.S. operations have earned a 27 percent approval rating on Glassdoor from 91 reviews, which means that less than a third of reviewers would encourage others to work there. On the other hand, Intel Corp., one of TSMC's major rivals, has an 85 percent approval rating, albeit from tens of thousands more reviews.

TSMC is spending US$40 billion to build two wafer fabs in the U.S. state of Arizona with one using the 4 nanometer process and the other the more advanced 3nm process, scheduled to start mass production in 2024 and 2026, respectively. The 3nm process is the latest technology TSMC uses for commercial production in Taiwan.

For its new production sites in Arizona, TSMC brought engineers hired in the U.S. to Taiwan for training before they started their jobs in the U.S. In addition, the company has sent Taiwanese engineers to Arizona in preparation for the opening of the new plants.

Due to its expansion globally, TSMC said, its workforce continues to grow and has become diverse, adding that the company actively listens to a wide range of opinions from its employees through established communications channels.

TSMC said it has established a comprehensive recruitment and training package, while trying its best to retain employees and place them in the right positions.

In addition to the current 13 site labor-management meetings, TSMC said, it has also set up 10 new Silicon Garden Meetings, referring to labor-management meetings by function/division, and launched a dedicated opinion collection system in the fourth quarter of 2022 to enhance communications and forge better ties with employees.

The Silicon Garden Meetings allow employees to voice their opinions via employee representatives during quarterly meetings and the online system can also be used to express their opinions at any time, TSMC said.

Through these communications channels, TSMC said, employees are able to give their opinions using their real names or anonymously and responses are provided in a timely manner.

TSMC touts balanced work environment amid 'brutal' condition claims in U.S. - Focus Taiwan

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. (TSMC), the world's largest contract chipmaker, issued a statement Monday on the balanced life environment it provides its employees, in response to a Fortune article over the weekend in which several former and current employees in the United States were...

focustaiwan.tw

 

[Dan Clein]

Overtime during a pandemic? How else do you run fabs at 110%? Now that utilization is down to 70% they must be relieved. Except that a big part of TSMC's comp plan is bonuses based on the performance of the company so it is not just salary. And you can bet those bonuses were big during the shortage period.

CHAT GPT Dylan Patel:

I'm sorry, but I couldn't find any specific information about a person named "Dylan Patel" in my pre-September 2021 knowledge. It's possible that this person may not be widely known or may be a private individual. If you have any additional context or specific questions about Dylan Patel, please provide more details, and I'll do my best to assist you.

Overtime during a pandemic? How else do you run fabs at 110%? Now that utilization is down to 70% they must be relieved. Except that a big part of TSMC's comp plan is bonuses based on the performance of the company so it is not just salary. And you can bet those bonuses were big during the shortage period.

CHAT GPT Dylan Patel:

I'm sorry, but I couldn't find any specific information about a person named "Dylan Patel" in my pre-September 2021 knowledge. It's possible that this person may not be widely known or may be a private individual. If you have any additional context or specific questions about Dylan Patel, please provide more details, and I'll do my best to assist you.

I found one in LinkedIn Dylan Patel Chief Analyst at SemiAnalysis but he has no history of working or studying anywhere... On his website he claims a few thousands subscribers.

 

[tooLongInEDA]

TSMC touts balanced work environment amid 'brutal' condition claims in U.S.​

Taipei, June 5 (CNA) Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. (TSMC), the world's largest contract chipmaker, issued a statement Monday on the balanced life environment it provides its employees, in response to a Fortune article over the weekend in which several former and current employees in the United States were quoted complaining about the company's "brutal" corporate culture.

In the statement, TSMC said average work hours at the company have not exceeded 50 hours a week over the past two years with only a few exceptions, such as when the company introduces a new technology process or speeds up its pace building a new plant. In such situations, a ceiling of 60 weekly working hours is observed.

TSMC said it is the company's unshirkable responsibility to provide employees with a balanced life environment, and with ongoing efforts to expand production worldwide the chipmaker is aware its top priority is to cultivate and manage cross-border talent.

According to TSMC, it currently has a workforce of more than 70,000 employees worldwide.

An office building at TSMC's site in Arizona is seen in this photo taken on Dec. 6, 2022 when the site is open to press for the first time. CNA file photo

The statement came after Fortune magazine cited messages posted by former and current TSMC employees in the U.S. on an online job search website as reporting over the weekend that they worked 12 hours a day, and weekend shifts were nothing special.

"People ... slept in the office for a month straight," a TSMC engineer was quoted by Fortune from a message posted to Glassdoor in August. "Twelve-hour days are standard, weekend shifts are common. I cannot stress ... how brutal the work-life balance is here."

"TSMC is about obedience [and is] not ready for America," Fortune reported, quoting a message posted by another TSMC engineer in January.

Fortune noted that TSMC's U.S. operations have earned a 27 percent approval rating on Glassdoor from 91 reviews, which means that less than a third of reviewers would encourage others to work there. On the other hand, Intel Corp., one of TSMC's major rivals, has an 85 percent approval rating, albeit from tens of thousands more reviews.

TSMC is spending US$40 billion to build two wafer fabs in the U.S. state of Arizona with one using the 4 nanometer process and the other the more advanced 3nm process, scheduled to start mass production in 2024 and 2026, respectively. The 3nm process is the latest technology TSMC uses for commercial production in Taiwan.

For its new production sites in Arizona, TSMC brought engineers hired in the U.S. to Taiwan for training before they started their jobs in the U.S. In addition, the company has sent Taiwanese engineers to Arizona in preparation for the opening of the new plants.

Due to its expansion globally, TSMC said, its workforce continues to grow and has become diverse, adding that the company actively listens to a wide range of opinions from its employees through established communications channels.

TSMC said it has established a comprehensive recruitment and training package, while trying its best to retain employees and place them in the right positions.

In addition to the current 13 site labor-management meetings, TSMC said, it has also set up 10 new Silicon Garden Meetings, referring to labor-management meetings by function/division, and launched a dedicated opinion collection system in the fourth quarter of 2022 to enhance communications and forge better ties with employees.

The Silicon Garden Meetings allow employees to voice their opinions via employee representatives during quarterly meetings and the online system can also be used to express their opinions at any time, TSMC said.

Through these communications channels, TSMC said, employees are able to give their opinions using their real names or anonymously and responses are provided in a timely manner.

TSMC touts balanced work environment amid 'brutal' condition claims in U.S. - Focus Taiwan

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. (TSMC), the world's largest contract chipmaker, issued a statement Monday on the balanced life environment it provides its employees, in response to a Fortune article over the weekend in which several former and current employees in the United States were...

focustaiwan.tw

In some respects, this sounds like the culture of a start-up company where you may go through a very tough phase of exceptional effort where you just need to do everything possible to survive. But that is also something that - in the start-up context - helps build the team and the culture.

Obviously the context is a bit different here and there presumably isn't quite the same freedom and scope and "rule bending" that are permitted/valued at a startup. And you do wonder why such a phase would be necessary in a relatively mature business like TSMC which has built out new fabs countless times before - you have to assume that it is partly by (TSMC) design.

That said, no one's being forced to go and work at TSMC in Arizona and they presumably comply with US employment laws. And you probably shouldn't expect the benefits you might get from working at TSMC without some of the costs.

 

[davemillman]

Lots of comments on the original Fortune piece on Reddit.

TSMC touts balanced work environment amid 'brutal' condition claims in U.S.​

In addition to the current 13 site labor-management meetings, TSMC said, it has also set up 10 new Silicon Garden Meetings, referring to labor-management meetings by function/division, and launched a dedicated opinion collection system in the fourth quarter of 2022 to enhance communications and forge better ties with employees.

The Silicon Garden Meetings allow employees to voice their opinions via employee representatives during quarterly meetings and the online system can also be used to express their opinions at any time, TSMC said.

Through these communications channels, TSMC said, employees are able to give their opinions using their real names or anonymously and responses are provided in a timely manner.

TSMC touts balanced work environment amid 'brutal' condition claims in U.S. - Focus Taiwan

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. (TSMC), the world's largest contract chipmaker, issued a statement Monday on the balanced life environment it provides its employees, in response to a Fortune article over the weekend in which several former and current employees in the United States were...

focustaiwan.tw

Are the engineers considered "labor" in this context? That might explain some of the comments by engineers on the Reddit board.

 

[lilo777]

Lots of comments on the original Fortune piece on Reddit.



Are the engineers considered "labor" in this context? That might explain some of the comments by engineers on the Reddit board.

That's interesting. A lot of comments there are just generic anti-globalization (and some xenophobic) stuff. But there are some specific testimonials. The most popular comment is this one:

I interviewed with them once. Was a position verifying a design that would never be viable, was just to test their process. The requirements were no remote work, no stock, no cellphones! And nightly calls with Taiwan that could not be done remotely. At least they provided lunch....a sandwich to be eaten in a conference room alone. Was the only job where I didn't ask the recruiter how I did on th interview, I just said no. And stopped working with that recruiter.

This sounds worse than what one would expect from the typical US company.