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Chinese Ministry of State Security Stealing IP, DOJ

Arthur Hanson

Active member
This DOJ announcement firmly establishes the Chinese have no integrity having violated their promises in 2014. They are engaged in massive theft of IP over a wide range of areas from medical, tech, biotech, oil drilling tech and several other areas. I hope this can be resolved, but the record of the Chinese speaks for itself, deceit, deception and denial. This theft not only includes the US, but several other countries. I'm now wondering if Chinese companies that sell outside China will end up in civil courts around the world for the massive damages they have caused many companies around the world. Micron has been mentioned as a specific target in several reports and China should be held to not only final product IP, but also process IP before any of their product is allowed in foriegn markets. This would require inspections of Chinese plants by outside inspectors. If they are allowed to profit from either product or process IP, expect no change in their current bad behavior. This should apply to ALL Chinese products based on their behavior.

I truly hope other world leaders can persuade the Chinese to act like responsible members of the world community. Collaboration and cooperation would be best for best for all and hopefully they can be made to recognize the very large value of integrity and character. So far they have clearly stated they plan to dominate many areas by 2025 and sadly so far have demonstrated ethics will not stand in the way. If they continue to pursue this path, all shall suffer.

True cooperation and collaboration would yield far faster progress than either side acting alone and be far more productive and yield far more prosperity. An all out IP war will yield nothing but massive misery, suffering, ill will and lost economic opportunity for all. The time is now and the world will not wait long for China to choose between peace and war. So far they have sadly chosen deceit, deception, denial and lies, they are fooling no one.

If China does not change paths, this will be a very ugly IP/cyber war that could very easily spiral out of control. With such heavy consequences, it is obvious the Chinese truly feel they can win this war.

Comments, thoughts or additions solicited and welcome

DOJ: 10 Chinese intel officers and hackers charged with stealing jet secrets

Addition: Stealing from a technological power like the USA is one thing, but they are also stealing from nations like India that are poor and really need their IP to develop. This is a tragedy in the literal human pain and suffering actions like these promote.
 
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boring18

New member
All laws and norms are well and good until they are not. Given John Yoo said that "Geneva Convention is so quaint" in regards to torture. Or how Israel continual expansion in West Bank. Or how Qualcomm managed to monopolized 4G. Or how Apple tried to bully Qualcomm in terms of royalties. Or how Disney used Congress to continuously extend their copyright of Mickey Mouse (against the spirit of the US Constitution). Or Jobs took ideas from Xerox. Or how US backed out of Paris Climate agreement. Or how US tore up JCPOA with Iran. Or how US deprive basic necessities of US citizens living in Puerto Rico.

Everybody behaves based on the law of the jungle. When it suits them, they use laws to give themselves an edge (or protection) under the guise of a more powerful authority.

I lament IP theft. Particularly those conducted in countries that know how serious that is, e.g. UMC helping Fujian in stealing Micron's IP. Without respect and protection of IP, Hollywood, music, software, technology cannot thrive. Those countries without strong IP protection, they deprive themselves of blossoming of ideas.

Having said that, according to the golden rule, if the Chinese bring the gold, they set the rules. We don't have to take their gold. But of course, just because we take their gold does not mean we open our kimono and leave ourselves vulnerable:

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Law of the jungle is back. EU is distracted/fractured by Brexit and rise of nationalism; US is deliberately trashy all these world organizations; Japan's population is shrinking. At the same time :

U.S-China: Get Used To It America: We’re No Longer No. 1

Countries are not sitting idle either:

Huawei and the '''Five Eyes''' nations: How an intelligent plan was cooked up to kill China telco

On the other hand, everyone should be clear eyed:

YouTube
YouTube

Obviously, forecasts are interesting parlor games.
And opinions are never gospels.
 

Arthur Hanson

Active member
One must remember "A deterrent only exist in the mind of the beholder" and the Chinese really don't believe there is a deterrent to their rampant theft and so far they have been right enough that it has been extremely profitable for them. It won't be until the pain exceeds the gain that the Chinese will be willing to obey international norms on anything.
 

boring18

New member
Let's see which happens first.
1) US obeying world's view and rejoin Paris Climate Agreement.
2) US obeying to the JPCOA it signed.
3) GOP obeying to wishes of voters in Wisconsin and Michigan and reverse their power-grab in stripping power of incoming Democrats.
4) NRA obeying the will of Americans in terms of gun control.

I'm not condoning IP theft. Let's be vigilant, skeptical and protective.
 

Arthur Hanson

Active member
Honest and politician don't go together. Jimmy Carter was our only honest president and people didn't like it at all. Most people want to hear there is a free lunch and no one has to pay for it. Also beware of people or organizations that declare themselves saints and heros, true saints and heros are very few and very far between. I like technology because most of it is fact based and it allows exploration and expansion like no other area.
 

Arthur Hanson

Active member
Latest update on Chinese cyber theft, they accuse the US of stealing and they are innocent. They truly believe they can win a cyber piracy war and there is no deterrent in their minds. The world is entering a very dangerous period when information is gold and a major power is bent on unrestricted theft. Cooperation and collaboration is the only answer for all could come out ahead and the world would benefit massively by the increase in speed of discovering and applying new technologies.

China Says Cyber Indictments 'Seriously Damaged' U.S. Cooperation
 

mbello

Member
I am not a fan of Trump, but the trade war against China was long overdue.
However, China is already too powerful and has too many countries by their balls (Australia, Brazil, almost all of Africa, almost all of Asia, big parts of Europe, Canada and te US itself) so no one will be able to stop their ways.
The US does not have much moral authority left to play as world police.
And international organizations like the UN are becoming weaker not stronger.

So yes, we are living by the laws of the jungle in many ways and it will be increasingly so.
 

sergann

New member
It won't be until the pain exceeds the gain that the Chinese will be willing to obey international norms on anything.










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Arthur Hanson

Active member
Let's see which happens first.
1) US obeying world's view and rejoin Paris Climate Agreement.
2) US obeying to the JPCOA it signed.
3) GOP obeying to wishes of voters in Wisconsin and Michigan and reverse their power-grab in stripping power of incoming Democrats.
4) NRA obeying the will of Americans in terms of gun control.

I'm not condoning IP theft. Let's be vigilant, skeptical and protective.
Many of the organizations and agreements you mention have become politicized to the point they are useless. US technology is becoming key in cleaning up the environment in several ways. Tesla is but one example and we a leader in clean water, although we still have a long ways to go. The US has cleaned up it's air dramatically in the last forty years and are ahead of most industrialized countries..

Huawei was blatant in their theft from Cisco and the optical router to the point their manual had the same grammatical mistakes as the rough draft of the Cisco manual. Sadly IP theft has become standard policy for many political and commercial organizations. This was a large scale blatant theft and the just one of many. What is needed is a world wide patent/copyright system to replace the multiple messes we have now and I have advocated for this for many years in this very publication.
 
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