Array
(
    [content] => 
    [params] => Array
        (
            [0] => /forum/index.php?threads/china-conflict-golden-opportunity-tech-should-lead.16623/
        )

    [addOns] => Array
        (
            [DL6/MLTP] => 13
            [Hampel/TimeZoneDebug] => 1000070
            [SV/ChangePostDate] => 2010200
            [SemiWiki/Newsletter] => 1000010
            [SemiWiki/WPMenu] => 1000010
            [SemiWiki/XPressExtend] => 1000010
            [ThemeHouse/XLink] => 1000970
            [ThemeHouse/XPress] => 1010570
            [XF] => 2021270
            [XFI] => 1050270
        )

    [wordpress] => /var/www/html
)

China Conflict, Golden Opportunity, Tech Should Lead

Arthur Hanson

Well-known member
The current commercial conflict between China and the West over advanced chips and other technologies present a golden opportunity for both sides to realize cooperation and collaboration between both sides to dial back our mutual massive military budgets and divert those funds to mutual progress. Both China's and the US's military would object for any organization rates its survival and growth the primary goal, even at the expense of a better world for all. This is the opportunity to pick the light side over the very dark one. This could be a matter of the planet's and mankind's survival. We are all on lifeboat earth and will be for a long time. It's way past time to exercise wisdom and learn how to work together. Shifting the military budgets on both sides and the divisive rhetoric on both sides is needed now if we are going to continue to live on this planet. Technology will be key and devoting ourselves on both sides to collaboration and cooperation will show man has reached a new level of maturity in overcoming the numerous challenges before us on this planet. The tech sector of both countries is the best place to start. Imagine the progress if we just dialed back our military budgets ten percent and devoted it to solving energy, food and water challenges. It is past time for technical progress to lead over military progress. Any thoughts, comments or plans of action appreciated. Right now, it's like two people in a small room threatening each other with hand grenades, in other words, the pinnacle of insanity. It's a small world and we must protect it. Tech should lead, for both our militaries are proven failures for decades in this area.
 

hist78

Well-known member
Unfortunately, CCP and Xi's priority and leadership list is different and nonnegotiable.

Their priority and leadership list is:

#1 Chairman Xi
#2 Chairman Xi
#3 CCP
#4 CCP
#5 China (if there's anything left after #1 ~ #4)
#6 People (if there's anything still left after #1 ~ #5, contribute your life to the glory for #1 ~ #5 if necessary)
 

blueone

Well-known member
Unfortunately, CCP and Xi's priority and leadership list is different and nonnegotiable.

Their priority and leadership list is:

#1 Chairman Xi
#2 Chairman Xi
#3 CCP
#4 CCP
#5 China (if there's anything left after #1 ~ #4)
#6 People (if there's anything still left after #1 ~ #5, contribute your life to the glory for #1 ~ #5 if necessary)
Thank you. That made me laugh; the first time today.
 

Jert

Member
Unfortunately, CCP and Xi's priority and leadership list is different and nonnegotiable.

Their priority and leadership list is:

#1 Chairman Xi
#2 Chairman Xi
#3 CCP
#4 CCP
#5 China (if there's anything left after #1 ~ #4)
#6 People (if there's anything still left after #1 ~ #5, contribute your life to the glory for #1 ~ #5 if necessary)

Well said. Love your succinct summary.
Anybody who wants to live under CCP's system, by all means please you should try to cooperate (more like to be commanded by CCP).
For the rest of us, hell NO ! I'd rather die defending the free world than living a pitiful life under CCP.
 

Arthur Hanson

Well-known member
The CCP will eventually collapse under its own weight. In a system based on terrorizing the population, progress slows to a crawl for people are afraid to act internally and outsiders know they are only offered bad deals. China should open now for advanced automation of everything from basic labor, to education to even advanced research is coming and no one can stop it. In the US, teacher and professors unions and organizations have fed the student loan mess by driving up costs in everything from instruction to books to lab costs. All these could be not only automated, but much done in virtual reality. Libraries should be virtual to dramatically lower costs. Many trades and professions are more about holding progress back than promoting it. Sadly, they have learned to exert many of the same influences a dictatorship exercises. China is its own worst enemy for its leaders are afraid of the truth and people who speak it are threatened. This will eventually lead to disaster for underlings will not want to be the bearers of bad news or to experiment with new thoughts and ideas that are the real keys to progress. We are becoming more like China with the current left taking the same road of narrow thinking over progress.
 
Last edited:

Dan Clein

New member
The current commercial conflict between China and the West over advanced chips and other technologies present a golden opportunity for both sides to realize cooperation and collaboration between both sides to dial back our mutual massive military budgets and divert those funds to mutual progress. Both China's and the US's military would object for any organization rates its survival and growth the primary goal, even at the expense of a better world for all. This is the opportunity to pick the light side over the very dark one. This could be a matter of the planet's and mankind's survival. We are all on lifeboat earth and will be for a long time. It's way past time to exercise wisdom and learn how to work together. Shifting the military budgets on both sides and the divisive rhetoric on both sides is needed now if we are going to continue to live on this planet. Technology will be key and devoting ourselves on both sides to collaboration and cooperation will show man has reached a new level of maturity in overcoming the numerous challenges before us on this planet. The tech sector of both countries is the best place to start. Imagine the progress if we just dialed back our military budgets ten percent and devoted it to solving energy, food and water challenges. It is past time for technical progress to lead over military progress. Any thoughts, comments or plans of action appreciated. Right now, it's like two people in a small room threatening each other with hand grenades, in other words, the pinnacle of insanity. It's a small world and we must protect it. Tech should lead, for both our militaries are proven failures for decades in this area.
I am trying very hard to understand what are you proposing.

If you propose that all countries should reduce defence budgets to spend on technology sounds good but... US is spending 3.7% of GDP into army and China only 1.7%. US GDP 19.5trillion in 2017, China 1.2 in the same year. So percentage and total US is spending a lot more on "defence". You are NOT screaming at the right people/government.

I see from additional responses that you start to get into politics, I thought that you really cared about technology... I feel free to share a short comment based loosely on one of Thomas Friedman speeches in the last 2 years.

"US & China had a perfect business relationship when they produced cheap everything so Walmart, Target and others could increase customer base and make bigger profits, compare to local manufacturing. All the time they just manufactured and did not create competitive products all was good. Nobody cared about the communist regime, their human "atrocities" or their "stupidity". US still imports most of the common goods that are "stupid or simple". But now that they have complex products like chips and full 5G infrastructure, they compete not only on price but performance with the US "technology" products so they became the enemy of the state. We helped them get here"
 

blueone

Well-known member
I am trying very hard to understand what are you proposing.

If you propose that all countries should reduce defence budgets to spend on technology sounds good but... US is spending 3.7% of GDP into army and China only 1.7%. US GDP 19.5trillion in 2017, China 1.2 in the same year. So percentage and total US is spending a lot more on "defence". You are NOT screaming at the right people/government.
Just to keep the facts straight, in US dollar terms, China's 2020 GDP was $14.72 trillion. But that's not really a good comparison, Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) is a more realistic measure, because it really does cost less to build comparable defense equipment in China than the US. China's PPP GDP is 1.18x times that of the US's GDP, and so their defense spending is considerably larger than it appears in dollar terms.
 
Last edited:

cliff

Active member
I'm glad China is providing such accurate numbers on their military budget, and they certainly know how to keep their R&D expenses down!

Remember when they disassembled the Russian supplier arms? Boy was Russia pissed, but that probably saved China a bundle of money. Smart! At least they never took any of our (USA) stuff.
 

blueone

Well-known member
I'm glad China is providing such accurate numbers on their military budget, and they certainly know how to keep their R&D expenses down!

Remember when they disassembled the Russian supplier arms? Boy was Russia pissed, but that probably saved China a bundle of money. Smart! At least they never took any of our (USA) stuff.
The Chinese Ministry of Finance issues an annual report on their defense budget. This is a Bloomberg article about it:


The US defense budget doesn't include the Veteran's Administration, Homeland Security, or non-military cyber defense (which is part of the FBI and arguably part of national defense). Also, aid for Ukraine is not included in the defense budget.

Personally, I would argue that given its global defense responsibilities, the US military is under-funded, as evidenced by the shrinking size of the US Navy compared to China's. US defense equipment production costs are very high, and it is arguable that the US spends too much on overly-ambitious technology agendas which cause much higher production and operational costs.
 

cliff

Active member
See Eisenhower's speech military industrial complex. Defense contractors are horribly inefficient. They won't embrace automation because they charge by the man-hour. They need to stop this pay by the man month nonsense, automate, and get the job done cheaper. HIring based on competency should also help.

It's all about smart missiles, drones, and satellites. We don't need pilots, etc. It's all about the technology (chips)
 

Arthur Hanson

Well-known member
None of the major powers have been able to mix cost control and military actions from the founding of the US and the crown going broke from the huge expense of the war. Economic wars are the new battle ground and tech is playing an ever more important role in not only creating conflicts, but solving or winning them. Control of IP physically and economically is the new battle ground and no longer can technologist not plan politically and militarily and hope to succeed or prosper. Technology has changed everything and social media is just one example.
 

horace

New member
See Eisenhower's speech military industrial complex. Defense contractors are horribly inefficient. They won't embrace automation because they charge by the man-hour. They need to stop this pay by the man month nonsense, automate, and get the job done cheaper. HIring based on competency should also help.

It's all about smart missiles, drones, and satellites. We don't need pilots, etc. It's all about the technology (chips)
How about let Elon Musk solves it too. We can have Tesla bots with flamethrowers parachute to the enemy's HQ on Starships.
 
Last edited:

Xebec

Active member
The CCP will eventually collapse under its own weight. In a system based on terrorizing the population, progress slows to a crawl for people are afraid to act internally and outsiders know they are only offered bad deals.
I think the problem is it could take 500 years for this to happen as has been shown with historical dynasties, kingdoms, etc.. or even just North Korea surviving about 50 years longer than it should have.

Advanced technology makes it much easier to 'sell' the oppression to the Chinese people ("I'm safe in China"), while also enforcing it more easily of course. It's (Sadly) going to take *at least* major famine to cause the downfall of the CCP, and even that might not be enough (see Mao).
 
Top