Apple/TSM will Rule

[Arthur Hanson]

The Apple/TSM partnership is going to come into play into an almost unstoppable powerhouse with staggering resources, money and adjoining ecosystems. There are few markets that can match the resources and brain power of this combination. When companies in the ecosystem are taken into account the market cap of this ecosystem easily tops three trillion dollars backed by a brain trust that is almost unimaginable. With technology, money and data ruling just about everything we touch, this combination has to move into mega markets to move the needle. It's literally a no brainer that this ecosystem has to move into multiple markets and invent entirely new ones to keep the momentum to put their talent and resources to their best use. Both Apple and TSM have an extensive ecosystem of top notch support companies that have taken years to build and integrate. Never in the history of mankind, including most governments, have such a variety of resources been available to tackle almost any challenge. I see both companies bringing others into their ecosystems for this is far faster than building from scratch. There is no area that they go into that they could not dominate if they so choose. Medical is but one frontier that has already been targeted. Another area I see them building an ecosystem if the sensor and computational power behind advanced robotics and automation on top of a 5G platform. Any thoughts, comments or additions solicited and welcome. Samsung made one the largest mistakes ever when they built a knock off iPhone and basically gave the business to TSM. This mistake may even come back to haunt Samsung a second and maybe several more times.

 

[Portland]

Humanity bigger than two companies. To be honest if you're not into apple it doesn't really exist. Tsmc is different it does effect our lives but we don't realize it.

 

[Paul2]

The Apple/TSM partnership is going to come into play into an almost unstoppable powerhouse with staggering resources, money and adjoining ecosystems. There are few markets that can match the resources and brain power of this combination. When companies in the ecosystem are taken into account the market cap of this ecosystem easily tops three trillion dollars backed by a brain trust that is almost unimaginable. With technology, money and data ruling just about everything we touch, this combination has to move into mega markets to move the needle. It's literally a no brainer that this ecosystem has to move into multiple markets and invent entirely new ones to keep the momentum to put their talent and resources to their best use. Both Apple and TSM have an extensive ecosystem of top notch support companies that have taken years to build and integrate. Never in the history of mankind, including most governments, have such a variety of resources been available to tackle almost any challenge. I see both companies bringing others into their ecosystems for this is far faster than building from scratch. There is no area that they go into that they could not dominate if they so choose. Medical is but one frontier that has already been targeted. Another area I see them building an ecosystem if the sensor and computational power behind advanced robotics and automation on top of a 5G platform. Any thoughts, comments or additions solicited and welcome. Samsung made one the largest mistakes ever when they built a knock off iPhone and basically gave the business to TSM. This mistake may even come back to haunt Samsung a second and maybe several more times.

I had few former coworker who now working at Apple in China.

One very funny clause on their contract was that they were not to make their employment at Apple public, or even tell the fact of existence of Apple's RnD centre in China (something everybody in Shenzhen knows anyways.)

Other thing I know is that their engineering teams are rather small, and engineering culture there is very conservative, contrary to company's public image.

But maybe, I am not up to date with that. Apple is said to have gone on an explosive hiring spree for RnD, and engineering in the last few years. They are certainly aiming to become a company much like Samsung, and to raise their ability to develop greenfield "from scratch" tech.

I myself feel they are themselves a bit afraid of becoming a "follower company," and their reliance on increasingly shorter list of hardware suppliers for parts, and new "magic" features.

Their higher ups look in awe at the Samsung's ability to turn greenfield RnD into sellable products across all sectors. I was told that Apple's engineering is often told to pick apart Samsung phones.

 

[Daniel Nenni]

I had few former coworker who now working at Apple in China.

One very funny clause on their contract was that they were not to make their employment at Apple public, or even tell the fact of existence of Apple's RnD centre in China (something everybody in Shenzhen knows anyways.)

Other thing I know is that their engineering teams are rather small, and engineering culture there is very conservative, contrary to company's public image.

But maybe, I am not up to date with that. Apple is said to have gone on an explosive hiring spree for RnD, and engineering in the last few years. They are certainly aiming to become a company much like Samsung, and to raise their ability to develop greenfield "from scratch" tech.

I myself feel they are themselves a bit afraid of becoming a "follower company," and their reliance on increasingly shorter list of hardware suppliers for parts, and new "magic" features.

Their higher ups look in awe at the Samsung's ability to turn greenfield RnD into sellable products across all sectors. I was told that Apple's engineering is often told to pick apart Samsung phones.

That certainly has come full circle then. Samsung used to take apart Apple products and copy them shamelessly. Samsung is an interesting company, very unique. It is hard to find another company like Samsung. It is hard not to notice Samsung products when you are in Korea. Everything is Samsung. It will be easier to name things Samsung does not make than what they make. One thing they have in Common with TSMC is a close partnership with the government. US companies do not have that luxury.

 

[Paul2]

That certainly has come full circle then. Samsung used to take apart Apple products and copy them shamelessly. Samsung is an interesting company, very unique. It is hard to find another company like Samsung. It is hard not to notice Samsung products when you are in Korea. Everything is Samsung. It will be easier to name things Samsung does not make than what they make. One thing they have in Common with TSMC is a close partnership with the government. US companies do not have that luxury.

I think a very good example of this is the flexible phone.

Apparently it was pretty much an internal joke meme at Apple, and a curious feasibility evaluation project thrown by some higher up designer.

Samsung took it for real, and scrammed one research institute worth of people thinking to beat Apple to the market. When Samsung actually began selling a real phone, it was a subject of talks, amusement, and disbelief for months I heard.

 

[SunnyLining]

That certainly has come full circle then. Samsung used to take apart Apple products and copy them shamelessly. Samsung is an interesting company, very unique. It is hard to find another company like Samsung. It is hard not to notice Samsung products when you are in Korea. Everything is Samsung. It will be easier to name things Samsung does not make than what they make. One thing they have in Common with TSMC is a close partnership with the government. US companies do not have that luxury.

Yeah, Samsung is like a supernova: however big you think they are, they're bigger.

They have weapons divisions! If Apple really wants to rival Samsung, how'd you like to see the iRifle or iMortar? Come to think of it, from what I hear about how military gadgets work, the troops could really use some of Apple's UI know-how.

That said, can we expect Apple to want to grow? Yes. Can we expect Apple to grow, perhaps a lot? Yes. Can we expect them to become a grand American keiretsu with their own chip foundry and weapons divisions? I doubt it, not with Tim Cook at the helm. The man is a supply chain wrangler and cost cutter to the bone. I'm skeptical that the iCar will ever appear as I expect that when they start seeing the regulatory sandbox they have to play in, they'll rethink their ambitions. The iCar will probably end up more like Android Auto, but with Apple doing a big chunk of the multimedia hardware design.

Also, it appears to be Antitrust Season again in America! Expect every large tech company to tread more lightly, at least for a few years. Maybe I'll be able to watch stuff on Apple's iNetflix thingy on my many devices from the Googleverse before it's all over. I /would/ like to see their Foundation series, assuming, of course, Apple's streaming service survives the streaming wars. Streaming wars sidenote: what happens to the content owned by the losers? Does it end up sold to the winners, or does it just disappear?

 

[count]

Yeah, Samsung is like a supernova: however big you think they are, they're bigger.

They have weapons divisions! If Apple really wants to rival Samsung, how'd you like to see the iRifle or iMortar? Come to think of it, from what I hear about how military gadgets work, the troops could really use some of Apple's UI know-how.

That said, can we expect Apple to want to grow? Yes. Can we expect Apple to grow, perhaps a lot? Yes. Can we expect them to become a grand American keiretsu with their own chip foundry and weapons divisions? I doubt it, not with Tim Cook at the helm. The man is a supply chain wrangler and cost cutter to the bone. I'm skeptical that the iCar will ever appear as I expect that when they start seeing the regulatory sandbox they have to play in, they'll rethink their ambitions. The iCar will probably end up more like Android Auto, but with Apple doing a big chunk of the multimedia hardware design.

Also, it appears to be Antitrust Season again in America! Expect every large tech company to tread more lightly, at least for a few years. Maybe I'll be able to watch stuff on Apple's iNetflix thingy on my many devices from the Googleverse before it's all over. I /would/ like to see their Foundation series, assuming, of course, Apple's streaming service survives the streaming wars. Streaming wars sidenote: what happens to the content owned by the losers? Does it end up sold to the winners, or does it just disappear?

This is more of a function of how the South Korean economy is structured than anything else. An entity like Samsung could not exist in the US because of antitrust concerns, as you pointed out. But why would Apple want to be in businesses like construction and shipbuilding? Apple, selling a handful of products, is worth more than Samsung with it's 80+ divisions. Better to do a few things really really well than be mediocre at a long list of things.

 

[herbs88]

The ties between TSMC and the government are no where comparable to that of Samsung’s. In fact, South Korea has been running state capitalism since the WWII. The 9 chaebols’ representatives showed up in Park Geun-Hye’s impeachment hearing acounted for 85% of Korea’s GDP.

 

[Daniel Nenni]

The ties between TSMC and the government are no where comparable to that of Samsung’s. In fact, South Korea has been running state capitalism since the WWII. The 9 chaebols’ representatives showed up in Park Geun-Hye’s impeachment hearing acounted for 85% of Korea’s GDP.

You are not wrong. It is more like China these days. You must buy Korean products or you are a traitor to your country!

 

[Paul2]

Can we expect them to become a grand American keiretsu with their own chip foundry and weapons divisions? I doubt it, not with Tim Cook at the helm. The man is a supply chain wrangler and cost cutter to the bone. I'm skeptical that the iCar

Things are going exactly in that direction if the ginormous hiring spree, and aim at car manufacturing tells anything.

Apple is such a company way bigger that just Iphone these days. Their internal RnD for example ventured much into optronics for now trice restarted Iglasses death march project, own power semiconductors, own EDAs, trying to co-develop processes with TSMC, and developed enough memory IP to start an own Flash, or DRAM business. They bought a furniture factory , a mini steel mill, a few machining tool makers, even a small semiconductor fab was bought with plans to make own mixed signals, and analog stuff prototypes on. And the list is far from complete because of the famed secrecy. I would be not surprised at all if they also had a hand in construction, and heavy industry business after doing this: https://qz.com/905934/even-the-toilets-in-apples-aapl-campus-2-are-inspired-by-the-iphone/

It's not rational to put that much of stuff into Iphone, and nothing else. From all comments I heard from people even most remotely close to decision makers, one notion was universal "Apple is growing out of the Iphone"

If you ever hear a word of Apple planning some kind of sock market manipulation amounting to a sock buy back, or "castling maneuvers" where they start to push anything other than Iphones to the frontline, it will be the start signal.

In a few years, if the hiring spree will continue at the same pace, they will be able to rival Samsung of few decades ago. Apple splitting into multiple linked companies, and becoming an American Chaebol would be the most logical way to find output that internal pressure, and the enormous stash of cash. How else can a company like Apple continue to grow?

 

[count]

Apple exceeds Samsung by most metrics except for headcount and number of businesses they operate in so I'm not sure what you mean by rivaling them. Chaebols are characterized as majority controlled by a small number of people and being closely connected to the state government. They are entrusted with their monopoly positions in important market sectors by the government. Samsung was basically chosen by the government to become the leading electronics company in Korea. There are no analogies in America, it's closer to the Chinese system of state sponsored capitalism.

 

[Arthur Hanson]

Apple exceeds Samsung by most metrics except for headcount and number of businesses they operate in so I'm not sure what you mean by rivaling them. Chaebols are characterized as majority controlled by a small number of people and being closely connected to the state government. They are entrusted with their monopoly positions in important market sectors by the government. Samsung was basically chosen by the government to become the leading electronics company in Korea. There are no analogies in America, it's closer to the Chinese system of state sponsored capitalism.

Thanks for the excellent observation, I will now take this into account in my trading and investing. This is an area of such importance it deserves further study of its ramifications and impacts, financial, politacally and technology wise.