The Ruins of Wuhan Hongxin Semiconductor
- Thread starter hist78
- Start date
Why do you think this is happening? Why isn't the China Government stepping in to correct things? I was in China when the pandemic started and I have not been back since then so I don't have any recent first hand experience. Phones calls are few and emails are guarded of course but I do talk to friends and coworkers in China and it seems to be a mix of opinion: Corruption and Incompetence.
Hopefully people from Asia can attend the upcoming DAC and IEDM conferences so we can get a better feeling of what is really happening around the semiconductor world.
Hopefully people from Asia can attend the upcoming DAC and IEDM conferences so we can get a better feeling of what is really happening around the semiconductor world.
I know a dozen of people in Chinese semi, and none ever seen anybody from CXMT, or YMTC. Those rarely show to industry expos, and if they do, then they often leave in less than a day, leaving their booths empty.
There is a bottomless gap in between the real industry in China, and the world of well connected people who get billion dollar government grants, and subsidies, often with a sole purpose of embezzling them.
There is virtually no contact.
hist78
Well-known member
Corruption and incompetence are not the root causes for those problems. They are the results of the system.
But sadly whoever dares to point out the problems in the system, peacefully and honestly, will be responded with brutal force. The "system" aggressively punishes those people who are discussing the truth and telling the truth. The required checks and balances of any functional system disappeared. Wuhan Hongxon Semiconductor's collapse is one of many similar cases that will continuously burst into the spotlight in the years to come.
Sadly the situation is getting worse day by day.
Did you get that rumour out of thin air？ The information I have gathered indicates that YMTC is running at capacity and steadily increasing WPM. They are hiring more people and purchasing more equipments（can be verified on recruiting and bidding websites）. What is YMTC's goal of 2021 and what is their WPM as of now？Any prove that they've failed to meet the annual goal？Unigroup is just one of the shareholders of YMTC，it's bankruptcy reorganization does not affects YMTC's operation.
CXMT use Qimonda's IP as a base to develop their own DRAM technology. Saying CXMT still use obsolete Qimonda IP is like saying Samsung still use obsolete Micron DRAM IP they bought in 1980s.
The latest number I heard about YMTC was 20k WPM in 2020, which is really, really far from once promised 100k WPM.
The early buyers of their flash got burned, and distributors liquidated their stocks. That "SSD grade NAND" went to USB stick makers for pennies. I've seen sales quotes myself.
And the pattern of bombastic statements like these http://www.ymtc.com/cn/entenotice.html is very characteristic of Chinese companies going into the death spiral.
And the biggest question, what money they are running on now? The cost of all fab equipment should've far exceeded the equity they had. Nobody buys a 100k WPM fab with just cash, even in China, so there must be a mountain of debt hidden somewhere. Them servicing their debt from just 20k WPM? Big question mark.
Short to the point, they built a huge fab sized for 100k WPM, but which is currently not pulling more than 20k WPM, and very likely a mountain of debt left from building that fab, and the end of memory supercycle coming. A way out of this? Likely not.
The early buyers of their flash got burned, and distributors liquidated their stocks. That "SSD grade NAND" went to USB stick makers for pennies. I've seen sales quotes myself.
And the pattern of bombastic statements like these http://www.ymtc.com/cn/entenotice.html is very characteristic of Chinese companies going into the death spiral.
And the biggest question, what money they are running on now? The cost of all fab equipment should've far exceeded the equity they had. Nobody buys a 100k WPM fab with just cash, even in China, so there must be a mountain of debt hidden somewhere. Them servicing their debt from just 20k WPM? Big question mark.
Short to the point, they built a huge fab sized for 100k WPM, but which is currently not pulling more than 20k WPM, and very likely a mountain of debt left from building that fab, and the end of memory supercycle coming. A way out of this? Likely not.
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YMTC is 80k at the moment
NAND Flash产业的中国势力 -- 长江存储-电子工程专辑
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www.eet-china.com
YMTC has it's own brand SSD called “ZHITAI”，and the price is about the same as Samsung/Micron. Check it out yourself
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Running at loss and debt isn't necessarily an issue if you are familiar with Samsung‘s road of development
hist78
Well-known member
Interestingly the article you have quoted is a Chinese translation from our very own semiwiki.com by Dylan Patel.YMTC is 80k at the moment
NAND Flash产业的中国势力 -- 长江存储-电子工程专辑
点击蓝字关注我们NAND Flash市场最近不错，新冠疫情导致的居家办公引领了PC和数据中心需求爆发，基于TrendForce的数据，NAND Flash现货价格较之前低位已经提高了近80%。与此同时www.eet-china.com
YMTC has it's own brand SSD called “ZHITAI”，and the price is about the same as Samsung/Micron. Check it out yourself
致态（ZhiTai）长江存储京东自营旗舰店 - 京东
致态（ZhiTai）长江存储京东自营旗舰店,提供致态（ZhiTai）长江存储京东自营旗舰店各类正品商品的报价、促销、评论、导购、图片等信息，欢迎您再次光顾致态（ZhiTai）长江存储京东自营旗舰店mall.jd.com
Running at loss and debt isn't necessarily an issue if you are familiar with Samsung‘s road of development
The Impending Chinese NAND Apocalypse – YMTC 128 Layer NAND Is The First Semiconductor Where China Is Technologically Competitive - Semiwiki
The NAND flash market has been doing quite well recently. Prices have risen nearly 80% from their lowest levels last year based on TrendForce’s spot prices. Combine Covid-19 with the resulting work from home PC and datacenter booms and NAND spot prices are extremely high. The PC market is...
It's not clear to me from the 80,000 wafers per month he mentioned is the "capacity" of YMTC or the actual monthly output of YMTC. Hopefully Dylan can clarify it.
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M
mgoldsmith1979
Guest
Cranes still on-site? Someone has to pay the rent for those, no? seems odd they would still be erect if there is no activity ongoing, but certainly some of that imaging looks like post-apocalyptic movie sets.
hist78
Well-known member
That YouTuber created the video was surprised by those chickens walking around the site.