Chips Act Money should go to TSM or Samsung

[blueone]

It wouldn't. Diplomacy, and military force are orthogonal. While wars end with diplomacy, diplomats don't end wars.

Countries start wars when they are at the apex economically, or when they think they need to start a war before the economy gets worse.

This way, the Second Chinese Civil War will start when China will get few years of good growth.

I like your first statement.

Putin started a war for his ego and legacy, and didn't restrain himself because he knew the threat of nuclear weapons would keep NATO at bay. Xi worries me for the same reason. He seems to want his legacy to be absorbing Taiwan. Diplomacy can't do anything about personal egos. Diplomacy can and has patched up our relationships a little with our allies, but to my untrained eyes diplomacy has done nothing of real value with Russia and China.

 

[nghanayem]

Chips act funds should go to TSM or Samsung and be an investment in a stock issue. Giving money to Intel and not getting stock in return sets a horrible example for all US industries when you give money to a company that had the lead and blew it. Any money should also be considered senior money with the government to be paid ahead of all creditors. Rewarding failure should never be something the US government invests in.

They would be getting money from it though. TSMC literally threatened to go back on their expansion plans unless the US GOVT subsidizes the cost difference of operating in the USA. Various supplies have also said the same. Under your logic why should Samsung get any money either. They also consistently fail to meet their deliverables, and are even under audit with Samsung electronics for lying about their numbers.

 

[hist78]

They would be getting money from it though. TSMC literally threatened to go back on their expansion plans unless the US GOVT subsidizes the cost difference of operating in the USA. Various supplies have also said the same. Under your logic why should Samsung get any money either. They also consistently fail to meet their deliverables, and are even under audit with Samsung electronics for lying about their numbers.

@nghanayem

"TSMC literally threatened to go back on their expansion plans unless the US GOVT subsidizes the cost difference of operating in the USA."

Do you have a link on this? Thanks.

 

[nghanayem]

My bad, it seems that like with Intel, it is a "slow down of pace".

The original place I saw it was CSNBC (I think, but I couldn't find the exact story), so here is something that had the same material:

Chip makers refuse to build new U.S. plants without more funding

Taiwanese semiconductor firm GlobalWafers joins Intel and TSMC in demanding $52 billion from Congress for U.S. expansion.

fortune.com

What seems to be the full quote(s):
https://tynmagazine.com/chipmakers-slow-us-moves-as-chips-act-languishes/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...239e28-fbf6-11ec-b39d-71309168014b_story.html

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/business/2022/07/05/chip-giants-threaten-to-scale-back-us-expansion-without-subsidies/

 

[hist78]

My bad, it seems that like with Intel, it is a "slow down of pace".

The original place I saw it was CSNBC (I think, but I couldn't find the exact story), so here is something that had the same material:

Chip makers refuse to build new U.S. plants without more funding

Taiwanese semiconductor firm GlobalWafers joins Intel and TSMC in demanding $52 billion from Congress for U.S. expansion.

fortune.com

What seems to be the full quote(s):
https://tynmagazine.com/chipmakers-slow-us-moves-as-chips-act-languishes/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...239e28-fbf6-11ec-b39d-71309168014b_story.html

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/business/2022/07/05/chip-giants-threaten-to-scale-back-us-expansion-without-subsidies/

Thank you for those links. I believe the one threatening to adjust their US expansion are GlobalWafers from Taiwan and Intel.

From all the TSMC statements I read, I can only see TSMC asking US to honor the previous agreements/understanding that started TSMC's Arizona fab project. Actually TSMC Chairman Mark Liu stated that with or without federal subsidies, TSMC is committed to the Arizona project during the recent shareholders meeting.

This is very different from Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger's threats to do more in Europe if Intel can't get taxpayers' money through the Chips Act.

 

[nghanayem]

Thank you for those links. I believe the one threatening to adjust their US expansion are GlobalWafers from Taiwan and Intel.

From all the TSMC statements I read, I can only see TSMC asking US to honor the previous agreements/understanding that started TSMC's Arizona fab project. Actually TSMC Chairman Mark Liu stated that with or without federal subsidies, TSMC is committed to the Arizona project during the recent shareholders meeting.

This is very different from Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger's threats to do more in Europe if Intel can't get taxpayers' money through the Chips Act.

Intel warns Ohio factory could be delayed because Congress is dragging its feet on funding

Intel's Ohio factory was announced in January and would be the most significant expansion of U.S.-based semiconductor manufacturing in years.

www.cnbc.com

Intel has made similar claims.
"As we said in our January announcement, the scope and pace of our expansion in Ohio will depend heavily on funding from the CHIPS Act,” "

"Intel is still committed to the $20 billion investment it announced earlier this year, a spokesperson told CNBC, but the larger $100 billion investment is uncertain if the CHIPS Act isn’t passed by Congress."


GF, TSMC, and Intel are posturing; while Samsung seems to be quite (to my knowledge). If memory serves the rumors are that Micron might expand if it can get money. Otherwise they won't, and globalwafers is in a similar camp. I don't know what is going on with TI, but presumably they are not happy.

 

[hist78]

Intel warns Ohio factory could be delayed because Congress is dragging its feet on funding

Intel's Ohio factory was announced in January and would be the most significant expansion of U.S.-based semiconductor manufacturing in years.

www.cnbc.com

Intel has made similar claims.
"As we said in our January announcement, the scope and pace of our expansion in Ohio will depend heavily on funding from the CHIPS Act,” "

"Intel is still committed to the $20 billion investment it announced earlier this year, a spokesperson told CNBC, but the larger $100 billion investment is uncertain if the CHIPS Act isn’t passed by Congress."


GF, TSMC, and Intel are posturing; while Samsung seems to be quite (to my knowledge). If memory serves the rumors are that Micron might expand if it can get money. Otherwise they won't, and globalwafers is in a similar camp. I don't know what is going on with TI, but presumably they are not happy.

Intel CEO threatens to expand in Europe over U.S. if Congress doesn’t unlock funding for new $20 billion Ohio chip plant

Intel CEO threatens to expand in Europe over U.S. without more funds

'The rest of the world is moving rapidly,' said Pat Gelsinger, who again called on Congress to approve chip subsidies.

fortune.com

I can't believe Intel, a US company, and Pat Gelsinger, a US citizen, can behave so badly. Did US government or taxpayers owe him any money and deserve such rude treatment?

 

[nghanayem]

Intel CEO threatens to expand in Europe over U.S. if Congress doesn’t unlock funding for new $20 billion Ohio chip plant

Intel CEO threatens to expand in Europe over U.S. without more funds

'The rest of the world is moving rapidly,' said Pat Gelsinger, who again called on Congress to approve chip subsidies.

fortune.com

I can't believe Intel, a US company, and Pat Gelsinger, a US citizen, can behave so badly. Did US government or taxpayers owe him any money and deserve such rude treatment?

My interpretation of that was that instead of doing 100b in the US it will be the smaller 20b that they already have contracts drawn up for, with all extra money going to the EU. Because if memory serves before the EU money came, the EU fab was supposed to be pretty small. But I get your drift, it is kind of sad, but I suppose unsurprising given that companies have been like this for a long time know (maybe always as I'm fairly young).

 

[Daniel Nenni]

A long-running push to provide $52 billion in subsidies to domestic semiconductor manufacturers faces a final vote in the Senate this week via a bill that also includes tens of billions of dollars for the National Science Foundation and regional tech start-ups.

Semiconductor companies and universities are already jockeying for slices of the funding, in an early sign of what’s likely to be a heated competition, should the bill become law.

After months of debate and setbacks, the legislation resembles the United States Innovation and Competition Act, the original form of the bill intended to boost U.S. competitiveness against China, which cleared the Senate last year but ran aground in the House...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/07/24/chips-act-senate-vote/