Lol Kevin zhang oversaw 10nm sram test chip failure at AD for A and B steppings and he is not involved in process
TSMC formally sues ex-SVP over alleged transfer of secrets to Intel
- Thread starter Daniel Nenni
- Start date
There are different types of "involved". I would imagine that analysis of SRAM failures requires rather significant understanding of the process.
Last edited:
I said Intel's employeeS who joined TSM. Another ex Intel's employee highlighted in the past few days:
Also, even SemiAccurate was able to gether info on Intel's progress at that time. I would imagine insiders would provide greater details than SemiAccurate.
Hopefully this drama and unnecessary distraction for both companies gets settled and put away quickly. TW and US are allies and need to unite thier forces in fighting the evil force that is the CCP.
During this time of Thanksgiving, both companies need to give some thanks to each other. Intel should thank TSMC for providing cost effective leading edge processes for some of its key products and consequently enabling Intel's continued survival in this fast moving competitive industry. TSMC should thank Intel for its success because many of its senior technical executives learned and accumulated their knowledge and experience and refined their craft while working as engineering managers in Intel fabs !! Have some appreciation for gods sake! TSMC won't be TSMC without those enormous former-Intel contributors!
During this time of Thanksgiving, both companies need to give some thanks to each other. Intel should thank TSMC for providing cost effective leading edge processes for some of its key products and consequently enabling Intel's continued survival in this fast moving competitive industry. TSMC should thank Intel for its success because many of its senior technical executives learned and accumulated their knowledge and experience and refined their craft while working as engineering managers in Intel fabs !! Have some appreciation for gods sake! TSMC won't be TSMC without those enormous former-Intel contributors!
Of course, there are some restrictions such as confidentiality and NDAs, but interfering with professional freedom is not justified.Based on the following report, he is not happy with TSM's management:
下個是誰？羅唯仁「帶槍投英特爾」 爆魏哲家陷更大人事危機 - 財經
台積電日前爆出重量級人事震撼彈，退休資深副總羅唯仁遭指控在離職前影印二十箱資料，並轉投美國英特爾，引發科技圈譁然；台積電已於11月25日提告羅唯仁。有消息指出，這已讓董座魏哲家面臨一場關於人事布局的思考，www.chinatimes.com
Should we also consider it a betrayal when people changed jobs from Intel to TSM at a time when TSM was in a weaker position? And why would that be considered a betrayal, given that he had worked at Intel for 18 years before joining TSM? I don’t understand the double-standard argument.
MKWVentures
Moderator
When I worked in development, I was required to take work notes in a formal notebook and company policy was that it was Confidential material and IP. It is not a top secret document but it is confidential and company property. It is fairly common policy that notes made while employed at a company are company IP. Every company I worked for had this as a policy. Notes from work are not personal when you are getting paid to do R&D.
MKWVentures
Moderator
this issue is not knowledge. that cannot be controlled. It is taking company confidential material. Most people I know do not do this.
I think it is equally likely that WJL also brought his personal notes to TSM after leaving Intel given this is his way of organising knowledge based on the news reporting:
No, I don't think there's any need to force it to be made public.
However, he may just be directly under LBT and not be in a higher position.
They may not be part of the management team, but may only be senior engineers.
During those years, TSMC and Intel were not direct competitors, since Intel did not have IFS and Intel also made its own processors (no chiplets then). From 7nm onwards, they were closer to competing since AMD became a TSMC customer, but by then, Intel and TSMC were already on different paths. Now, with IFS, Intel is trying to get on the same path as TSMC; it's an actual competitor, so the foundry-related information going back to Intel is more of a business threat to TSMC.
I think the argument should be based on actions/merits, not circumstances. We should apply a single standard, not double standards. Intel did attempt to enter the foundry business earlier on, but it wasn’t able to make it work.
Also, given that Intel was leading in process technology at the time, it is reasonable to assume that TSMC benefited more from Intel’s knowledge outflows than the other way around. Intel’s current technology stack is vastly different from TSMC’s. WJL had only been at Intel for a couple of months, so it is highly unlikely that Intel gained anything meaningful from his presence. Even TSMC has stated that it is highly unlikely for a single individual to have a significant impact on the process race.
Even if the plaintiff did not do such a thing, the media would mercilessly attack the defendant...
Here's me reading into it far too much and coming up with a conspiracy theory:
TSMC recognizes Intel is poaching its employees in AZ (and is doing so while following all laws) and realize that WJL will be moving over to Intel.
Given how everyone knows WJL is only in to handwritten notes, they choose to let him take all these boxes. (even though they know he's quitting/leaving)
Now they sue WJL publicly, and even if they don't win, they successfully reduce their outflow of employees (and talent) to Intel because of all the publicity (people become scared to jump ship).
I know Dan has said TSMC is an upstanding and professional company, so I doubt they would actually do this, but you never know!
TSMC recognizes Intel is poaching its employees in AZ (and is doing so while following all laws) and realize that WJL will be moving over to Intel.
Given how everyone knows WJL is only in to handwritten notes, they choose to let him take all these boxes. (even though they know he's quitting/leaving)
Now they sue WJL publicly, and even if they don't win, they successfully reduce their outflow of employees (and talent) to Intel because of all the publicity (people become scared to jump ship).
I know Dan has said TSMC is an upstanding and professional company, so I doubt they would actually do this, but you never know!
I know dozens of people who have jumped between TSMC and Intel. Intel hired two friends of mine from TSMC who spent 15 years architecting the EDA/IP OIP Ecosystem when Intel Foundry started up. One went back to TSMC and the other retired. Not good experiences due to the premature launch of 18A. So yes, Intel and TSMC swap employees all of the time, no problem. The key is being truthful during the exit interview.
The problem here is that WJL failed to mention he was joining Intel during his exit interview. In fact, he said otherwise (retirement/academia). I'm sure there is a paper trail on this. If he had discussions with Intel prior to the exit interview then there is a problem. That problem will be compounded if WJL had confidential information in his possession which will be discovered during the searches and legal discovery/depositions that are underway.
It certainly could be that Taiwan/TSMC is making an example of WJL and being heavy handed. But, if the TSMC Media Statement is true, which I believe it to be knowing TSMC, this is much more than a display of power.
Bottom line: Truth is a person's best defense. WJL needs to tell the truth and get on with it. The longer this goes on the harder it will be on WJL and his family, my opinion.
I think Wei-Jen Lo also sensed the current political climate in Taiwan. If he had informed TSMC that his next destination was Intel, the Taiwanese government might have refused to let him leave the country. The Taiwanese government is using the National Security Act to handle such issues.
One Taiwanese media report mentioned that the person who conducted Wei-Jen Lo's retirement interview was the same individual who handled Liang Mong-Song's case, and that Wei-Jen Lo had previously testified in that case.
As you said, ultimately it depends on whether the accusation has any merit.
MKWVentures
Moderator
So you are saying that the Taiwan government would block someone from leaving the country because they could help an American company? Does Taiwan really block people from leaving Taiwan????
Why not? Just look at what they are doing it now?
I think what they would do:
1. Not let him leave the country
2. Then convince him not join Intel
Last edited:
I still do not know why a 75yo man with $50M+ in TSMC stock would go to work for Intel in the first place. It makes no sense. Revenge is the only thing I can think of. I do not know him but I am told WJL was not a popular guy at TSMC of late. Maybe a neurological issue. There is an industry event on Thursday with an open bar. We should know more then.
Multiple TV programs mentioned he was not happy with CC.I still do not know why a 75yo man with $50M+ in TSMC stock would go to work for Intel in the first place. It makes no sense. Revenge is the only thing I can think of. I do not know him but I am told WJL was not a popular guy at TSMC of late. Maybe a neurological issue. There is an industry event on Thursday with an open bar. We should know more then.
Btw, WJL's father was a high rank KMT military general:
