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The Ruins of Wuhan Hongxin Semiconductor

hist78

Well-known member

This venture allegedly has a scope of $128 billion RMB investment or about $20 billion US dollar. No final number about the exact loss is available.
 
The rumour is YMTC is about to go pop as well, not hitting the WPM goal even remotely, and also Qinghua Unigroup being near bankruptcy.

CXMT promises a new fab, but it's not clear how they want an even bigger fab on obsolete 22nm Qimonda IP to be profitable.
 
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Why do you think this is happening? Why isn't the China Government stepping in to correct things? I was in China when the pandemic started and I have not been back since then so I don't have any recent first hand experience. Phones calls are few and emails are guarded of course but I do talk to friends and coworkers in China and it seems to be a mix of opinion: Corruption and Incompetence.

Hopefully people from Asia can attend the upcoming DAC and IEDM conferences so we can get a better feeling of what is really happening around the semiconductor world.
 
Why do you think this is happening? Why isn't the China Government stepping in to correct things? I was in China when the pandemic started and I have not been back since then so I don't have any recent first hand experience. Phones calls are few and emails are guarded of course but I do talk to friends and coworkers in China and it seems to be a mix of opinion: Corruption and Incompetence.

Hopefully people from Asia can attend the upcoming DAC and IEDM conferences so we can get a better feeling of what is really happening around the semiconductor world.

I know a dozen of people in Chinese semi, and none ever seen anybody from CXMT, or YMTC. Those rarely show to industry expos, and if they do, then they often leave in less than a day, leaving their booths empty.

There is a bottomless gap in between the real industry in China, and the world of well connected people who get billion dollar government grants, and subsidies, often with a sole purpose of embezzling them.

There is virtually no contact.
 
Why do you think this is happening? Why isn't the China Government stepping in to correct things? I was in China when the pandemic started and I have not been back since then so I don't have any recent first hand experience. Phones calls are few and emails are guarded of course but I do talk to friends and coworkers in China and it seems to be a mix of opinion: Corruption and Incompetence.

Hopefully people from Asia can attend the upcoming DAC and IEDM conferences so we can get a better feeling of what is really happening around the semiconductor world.
Corruption and incompetence are not the root causes for those problems. They are the results of the system.

But sadly whoever dares to point out the problems in the system, peacefully and honestly, will be responded with brutal force. The "system" aggressively punishes those people who are discussing the truth and telling the truth. The required checks and balances of any functional system disappeared. Wuhan Hongxon Semiconductor's collapse is one of many similar cases that will continuously burst into the spotlight in the years to come.

Sadly the situation is getting worse day by day.
 
The rumour is YMTC is about to go pop as well, not hitting the WPM goal even remotely, and also Qinghua Unigroup being near bankruptcy.

CXMT promises a new fab, but it's not clear how they want an even bigger fab on obsolete 22nm Qimonda IP to be profitable.

Did you get that rumour out of thin air? The information I have gathered indicates that YMTC is running at capacity and steadily increasing WPM. They are hiring more people and purchasing more equipments(can be verified on recruiting and bidding websites). What is YMTC's goal of 2021 and what is their WPM as of now?Any prove that they've failed to meet the annual goal?Unigroup is just one of the shareholders of YMTC,it's bankruptcy reorganization does not affects YMTC's operation.

CXMT use Qimonda's IP as a base to develop their own DRAM technology. Saying CXMT still use obsolete Qimonda IP is like saying Samsung still use obsolete Micron DRAM IP they bought in 1980s.
 
The latest number I heard about YMTC was 20k WPM in 2020, which is really, really far from once promised 100k WPM.

The early buyers of their flash got burned, and distributors liquidated their stocks. That "SSD grade NAND" went to USB stick makers for pennies. I've seen sales quotes myself.

And the pattern of bombastic statements like these http://www.ymtc.com/cn/entenotice.html is very characteristic of Chinese companies going into the death spiral.

And the biggest question, what money they are running on now? The cost of all fab equipment should've far exceeded the equity they had. Nobody buys a 100k WPM fab with just cash, even in China, so there must be a mountain of debt hidden somewhere. Them servicing their debt from just 20k WPM? Big question mark.

Short to the point, they built a huge fab sized for 100k WPM, but which is currently not pulling more than 20k WPM, and very likely a mountain of debt left from building that fab, and the end of memory supercycle coming. A way out of this? Likely not.
 
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The latest number I heard about YMTC was 20k WPM in 2020, which is really, really far from once promised 100k WPM.

The early buyers of their flash got burned, and distributors liquidated their stocks. That "SSD grade NAND" went to USB stick makers for pennies. I've seen sales quotes myself.

And the pattern of bombastic statements like these http://www.ymtc.com/cn/entenotice.html is very characteristic of Chinese companies going into the death spiral.

And the biggest question, what money they are running on now? The cost of all fab equipment should've far exceeded the equity they had, so there must be a mountain of debt hidden somewhere.


YMTC is 80k at the moment


与此同时,长江存储正在大展拳脚。预计在2022初,长江存储将具备10万片/月的wafer生产能力,目前产能为8万片/月。

YMTC has it's own brand SSD called “ZHITAI”,and the price is about the same as Samsung/Micron. Check it out yourself



Running at loss and debt isn't necessarily an issue if you are familiar with Samsung‘s road of development
 
YMTC is 80k at the moment




YMTC has it's own brand SSD called “ZHITAI”,and the price is about the same as Samsung/Micron. Check it out yourself



Running at loss and debt isn't necessarily an issue if you are familiar with Samsung‘s road of development
Interestingly the article you have quoted is a Chinese translation from our very own semiwiki.com by Dylan Patel.


It's not clear to me from the 80,000 wafers per month he mentioned is the "capacity" of YMTC or the actual monthly output of YMTC. Hopefully Dylan can clarify it.
 
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This venture allegedly has a scope of $128 billion RMB investment or about $20 billion US dollar. No final number about the exact loss is available.
Cranes still on-site? Someone has to pay the rent for those, no? seems odd they would still be erect if there is no activity ongoing, but certainly some of that imaging looks like post-apocalyptic movie sets.
 
Cranes still on-site? Someone has to pay the rent for those, no? seems odd they would still be erect if there is no activity ongoing, but certainly some of that imaging looks like post-apocalyptic movie sets.
That YouTuber created the video was surprised by those chickens walking around the site.
 
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