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The pros and cons of making advanced chips in America

Daniel Nenni

Admin
Staff member
bb0bfaa4e803e0024773bc54883348b6


  • - Most AI chips are made in Taiwan by Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company.
  • - Startups focused on lowering the cost of AI are working with US manufacturers.
  • - AI chips are being made at fabrication facilities in New York and Arizona.
Attempting to compete with Nvidia is daunting, especially when it comes to manufacturing.

Nvidia and most of its competitors don't produce their own chips. They vie for capacity from the world's most advanced chip fabricator: Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company. Nvidia may largely control which companies get the latest and most powerful computing machines, but TSMC decides how many Nvidia can sell. The relationship between the two companies fascinates the industry.

But the bottom line is that there's no manufacturer better and there's no getting ahead of Nvidia for the types of manufacturing capacity relevant to AI.

Still, a few startups think they can find an advantage amid Nvidia's dominance and the ever-fluctuating dynamics surrounding the island nation of Taiwan by tapping chip fabs in the United States.

Positron AI, founded by Thomas Sohmers in 2023, has designed a chip architecture optimized for transformer models — the kind on which OpenAI's GPT models are built. With faster access to more memory, Sohmers claims Postiron's architecture can compete on performance and price for AI inference, which is the computation needed to produce an answer to a query after a model has been trained.

Positron's system has "woefully less FLOPS" than an Nvidia GPU, Sohmers joked. However, his architecture is intended to compensate for this with efficiency for Positron and its customers.

Smaller fabs are 'hungrier'​

Positron's chips are made in Chandler, Arizona, by Intel-owned firm, Altera.

Intel acquired Altera, which specializes in a specific type of programmable chip, in 2015. In 2023, some early Positron employees and advisors came from Altera — bringing relationships and trust. The early partnership has given Positron some small influence over Altera's path and a cheaper, more flexible manufacturing partner.

The cost of AI comes from the chip itself and the power needed to make it work. Cutting costs on the chip means looking away from TSMC, Sohmers says, which currently holds seemingly infinite bargaining power.

"Fundamentally, Positron is trying to provide the best performance per dollar and performance per watt," Sohmers said.
Compared to other industries, AI offers a rare proposition: US production is often cheaper.

"In most other industries, made in the USA actually means that it's going to be more expensive. That's not the case for semiconductors — at least for now," Sohmers said.

Many fabs are eager to enter the AI game, but they don't have the same technical prowess, prestige, or track record, which can make finding customers challenging.

Startups, which often lack the high order volumes that carry market power, are a good fit for these fabs, Sohmers said. These less in-demand fabs offer more favorable terms, too, which Sohmers hopes will keep Positron competitive on price.

"If I have some optionality going with someone that is behind but has the ambition to get ahead, it's always good from a customer or partner perspective," he said, adding, "It gives both leverage."

Taking advantage of US fabs has kept the amount of funding Positron needs within reason and made it easier to scale, Sohmers said.

Positron isn't alone. Fellow Nvidia challenger Groq partners with GlobalFoundries in upstate New York and seeks to make a similar dent in the AI computing market by offering competitive performance at a lower price.

Less inherent trust​

It's not all upside though. Some investors have been skeptical, Sohmers said. And as an engineer, not going with the best fab in the world can feel strange.

"You have a lot more faith that TSMC is going to get to a good yield number on a new design pretty quickly and that they have a good level of consistency while, at other fabs, it can be kind of a dice roll," he said.

With a global supply chain, no semiconductor is immune from geopolitical turmoil or the shifting winds of trade policy. So, the advantages of exiting the constantly simmering tension between Taiwan, China, and the US serve as a counterweight to any skepticism.

Positron is also working on sourcing more components and materials in North America, or at least outside China and Taiwan.

Sourcing from Mexico, for example, offers greater safety from geopolitical turmoil. The simpler benefit is that shipping is faster so prototyping can happen quickly.

It's taken a while, but Sohmers said the industry is waking up to the need for more players across the AI space.

"People are finally getting uncomfortable with Nvidia having 90-plus percent market share," he said.

 
People are free to choose who they buy from .... Most people choose the best company and best supply chain which is why Asia dominates.

"People are finally getting uncomfortable with Nvidia having 90-plus percent market share," he said."

People are free to buy from other companies than NVIDIA. Intel would love to sell DC GPUs and have plenty of availability. And yet they do not.
People are free to buy from other companies than TSMC. Samsung and GF and UMC and Intel will gladly take your order. And yet....
People are free to buy from other companies than ASML. Nikon and Canon will gladly take your order . And yet....

Most people correctly choose the best company and best supply chain

Side note: Comparing an AI start up running a FPGA to NVIDIA isnt a meaningful comparison IMO
 
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This is kinda strange. Startup AI companies using FPGAs are not similar to NVIDIA GPUs. Small companies always need to use FPGAs since they cannot afford ASIC development.

People are free to choose who they buy from .... Most people choose the best partner and best supply chain which is why Asia dominates.

"Smaller fabs are 'hungrier'

Positron's chips are made in Chandler, Arizona, by Intel-owned firm, Altera.

Intel acquired Altera, which specializes in a specific type of programmable chip, in 2015. In 2023, some early Positron employees and advisors came from Altera — bringing relationships and trust. The early partnership has given Positron some small influence over Altera's path and a cheaper, more flexible manufacturing partner."

Since when did Altera become a foundry or a chip manufacturer?!

I remember many years ago a friend asked me, "What's the difference between AOL and DSL?"

I struggled a little bit to find the best way to explain it to her without making her feel bad.
 
This is an AI assisted article for sure. The author has zero semiconductor experience.

Thomas Sohmers however is a very interesting guy. Former Groq and a Thiel Fellow, got paid to skip college!

"Selected as a Fellow for the 2013 class of Thiel Fellows. I am working on my Embedded Cluster Computing company for the fellowship. Thiel Fellows are given a no-strings-attached grant of $100,000 to skip college and focus on their work, their research, and their self-education. They are mentored by a network of visionary thinkers, investors, scientists, and entrepreneurs, who provide guidance and business connections that can’t be replicated in any classroom. For more information visit: http://thielfellowship.org"

 
People are free to choose who they buy from .... Most people choose the best company and best supply chain which is why Asia dominates.

"People are finally getting uncomfortable with Nvidia having 90-plus percent market share," he said."

People are free to buy from other companies than NVIDIA. Intel would love to sell DC GPUs and have plenty of availability. And yet they do not.
People are free to buy from other companies than TSMC. Samsung and GF and UMC and Intel will gladly take your order. And yet....
People are free to buy from other companies than ASML. Nikon and Canon will gladly take your order . And yet....

Most people correctly choose the best company and best supply chain

Side note: Comparing an AI start up running a FPGA to NVIDIA isnt a meaningful comparison IMO
Not quite: GF and UMC do not offer leading edge nodes. The only leading edge node options are: TSMC, Intel and Samsung...but Samsung has had issues with their leading edge and Intel has just gotten started offering leading edge with it's newly created Foundry. Intel has the potential to be a fairly big competitor here, but it will take more time. It appears Intel is there technologically with 18A (available in 2nd half of this year) and next year with 14A on high NA EUV.

As for Nikon and Canon competing with ASML...that's a hard no. ASML is the only EUV lithography provider in the world, period. The entire leading edge tech economy depends on ASML...they are a single point failure. I had read about some people trying to use free electron lasers to create 13nm EUV light, but that would take a football field size FEL ring. But it's being discussed.
 
There is only a bit of luck rest is hardwork and planning
for sure. that's why I dislike the current Intel. I missed the old Intel.

Intel have more money than Nvidia when Nvidia is just a GPU company. Intel didn't make the bet on GPU. Jensen Huang did.
 
for sure. that's why I dislike the current Intel. I missed the old Intel.

Intel have more money than Nvidia when Nvidia is just a GPU company. Intel didn't make the bet on GPU. Jensen Huang did.
Yeah and funny thing is the bean counters cancelled GPUs
Not quite: GF and UMC do not offer leading edge nodes. The only leading edge node options are: TSMC, Intel and Samsung...but Samsung has had issues with their leading edge and Intel has just gotten started offering leading edge with it's newly created Foundry. Intel has the potential to be a fairly big competitor here, but it will take more time. It appears Intel is there technologically with 18A (available in 2nd half of this year) and next year with 14A on high NA EUV.

As for Nikon and Canon competing with ASML...that's a hard no. ASML is the only EUV lithography provider in the world, period. The entire leading edge tech economy depends on ASML...they are a single point failure. I had read about some people trying to use free electron lasers to create 13nm EUV light, but that would take a football field size FEL ring. But it's being discussed.
the reason for having ASML as the sole supplier is also US/Japan semi war in 1990s Cannon Nikon were denied the license by US
 
Not quite: GF and UMC do not offer leading edge nodes. The only leading edge node options are: TSMC, Intel and Samsung...but Samsung has had issues with their leading edge and Intel has just gotten started offering leading edge with it's newly created Foundry. Intel has the potential to be a fairly big competitor here, but it will take more time. It appears Intel is there technologically with 18A (available in 2nd half of this year) and next year with 14A on high NA EUV.

As for Nikon and Canon competing with ASML...that's a hard no. ASML is the only EUV lithography provider in the world, period. The entire leading edge tech economy depends on ASML...they are a single point failure. I had read about some people trying to use free electron lasers to create 13nm EUV light, but that would take a football field size FEL ring. But it's being discussed.
Exactly.... thats my point.

There are lots of GPU vendors, lots of foundries, lots of lithography tool companies. Only one is the best. in each case. But you are free to use the others.
 
the reason for having ASML as the sole supplier is also US/Japan semi war in 1990s Cannon Nikon were denied the license by US
that is not correct. the reason is that ASML have always been very good and Nikon and Canon are horrible by comparison. Companies did paired evaluations and it was not even close.
 
that is not correct. the reason is that ASML have always been very good and Nikon and Canon are horrible by comparison. Companies did paired evaluations and it was not even close.
The License had a play as well when Japan and US were at cut throat with each other if they had license there wouldn't be a natural Monopoly like this at least we would have competition
 
Nvidia got "lucky" - Intel
It is probably being too generous, but I'd like to believe that the comment was in reference to the timing, rather than the hard work. One can argue that AI was 70 years in the making if you start counting from Alan Turing's paper "Computing Machinery and Intelligence" in 1950.

Assuming that Intel continues to make the kind of progress in graphics they have been making the last few years (admittedly a big assumption) you can argue that Nvidia would have been competing with Intel for the AI pie if AI had come of age 10 years from now. So the luck was in the timing, i.e. AI exploded before Intel's graphics business was competitive.

Though I still think it was a foolish thing for Gelsinger to say.
 
Another, and probably more worthy of attention question is "what is the pros and cons of making LED blinkers in America"?

The lion share of chips are legacy, and trailing nodes.
 
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