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Government should invest in TSM, not Intel

Arthur Hanson

Well-known member
If the government is going to truly "INVEST" a term they use far too loosely, I'd rather see the money go to a proven winner for their Arizona fabs than to a proven also-ran, like Intel. Sadly, the government has proven to many times it likes to invest in losers, uneconomic projects, or other endeavors with little or no return, many times substantial losses. I hope they invest in a winner, either way, if they invest, the government should get a verifiable return and not just hot air.
 

lilo777

Member
I think one needs to distinguish between regular investments and government investments. Government does not invest to make money (they can print them), government invests in country security and things like that. If it was just about money, the government would make even more money by investing in TSMC's Taiwan FABs.
 

Arthur Hanson

Well-known member
I think one needs to distinguish between regular investments and government investments. Government does not invest to make money (they can print them), government invests in country security and things like that. If it was just about money, the government would make even more money by investing in TSMC's Taiwan FABs.
You make my point, in that basically, you are saying it doesn't make economic sense for even the best companies like TSM should build in Taiwan than the US for a good return. If one shouldn't invest in even TSM in the US, why throw money at a number two who lost their lead through poor management like Intel.
 

lilo777

Member
You make my point, in that basically, you are saying it doesn't make economic sense for even the best companies like TSM should build in Taiwan than the US for a good return. If one shouldn't invest in even TSM in the US, why throw money at a number two who lost their lead through poor management like Intel.
That's half of my point. It looks like you believe that US do not need semiconductor industry. That's where we disagree. And if US were to save semiconductor industry the government may have little choice but to invest in it even if it means potential losses.
 

Arthur Hanson

Well-known member
That's half of my point. It looks like you believe that US do not need semiconductor industry. That's where we disagree. And if US were to save semiconductor industry the government may have little choice but to invest in it even if it means potential losses.
The US should invest in technology of all types but needs to create an efficient ecosystem to support it starting with a highly efficient, low-cost training system, streamlined permitting, and efficient capital structures.
 

JohnnyFox

New member
If the government is going to truly "INVEST" a term they use far too loosely, I'd rather see the money go to a proven winner for their Arizona fabs than to a proven also-ran, like Intel. Sadly, the government has proven to many times it likes to invest in losers, uneconomic projects, or other endeavors with little or no return, many times substantial losses. I hope they invest in a winner, either way, if they invest, the government should get a verifiable return and not just hot air.
I don't know, Xi Jingping will likely invade Taiwan within the next ten years. Having the eggs in the TSMC basket if that situation plays out will not be good for USA or the EU, even if their are fabs in AZ. Process & cost wise TSMC would be the one to bet on, though the risk from the CCP is just not worth it.
 

chipsntexas

New member
Come on folks, there's a bit of disingenuous comments here. This industry location scenario and government support is NOT merely an economic discussion. Never has been. Of course money is involved, so companies want their "share" - and that's where the waste & inefficiencies come into play. The best lobbyist gets more dollars rather than the best overall research or development program. That is the maddening part, as companies will aim for the low hanging fruit of handout money and ignore the long term threat of their whole existence. But the security aspect is, and has been for 2+ decades, the driving factor in keeping leading edge technology out of China. That is the priority, and main threat to the US (financially & militarily to be sure), but wrapping it into an economics discussion is ignoring the 800# elephant in the room (or dragon if you want). Maybe that is worth two cents, it's what I have today....
 

Portland

Active member
The current CEO of Intel isn't credible. He's made claims about new fabs in ireland , Arizona, Israel, oregon , Germany ... and some of them won't be happening. With that there is still a core of Intel that's a brilliant company but parts of it are run poorly.
 
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