Array
(
    [content] => 
    [params] => Array
        (
            [0] => /forum/index.php?threads/biden-to-visit-taiwanese-chip-manufacturer-tsmcs-arizona-plant-on-dec-6.17145/page-2
        )

    [addOns] => Array
        (
            [DL6/MLTP] => 13
            [Hampel/TimeZoneDebug] => 1000070
            [SV/ChangePostDate] => 2010200
            [SemiWiki/Newsletter] => 1000010
            [SemiWiki/WPMenu] => 1000010
            [SemiWiki/XPressExtend] => 1000010
            [ThemeHouse/XLink] => 1000970
            [ThemeHouse/XPress] => 1010570
            [XF] => 2021370
            [XFI] => 1050270
        )

    [wordpress] => /var/www/html
)

Biden to visit Taiwanese chip manufacturer TSMC's Arizona plant on Dec 6

The 18 month tour I was referencing from the article was the one US hires have to make in Taiwan:
This requirement would seem to severely limit interest from US-based applicants.
Your site, your rules.

The 18 month tour I referenced is TSMC Taiwan employees going to the US to get the fab up and running. There will be no shortage of volunteers.
 
The 18 month tour I referenced is TSMC Taiwan employees going to the US to get the fab up and running. There will be no shortage of volunteers.
I bet not. Double-pay too, apparently.


For any US-based employees with spouses or school-age children, living in Taiwan for 12-18 months (some articles say 6-12 months) is probably a non-starter.
 
The 18 month tour I referenced is TSMC Taiwan employees going to the US to get the fab up and running. There will be no shortage of volunteers.
Japan Fab is number 1 choice for most TSMC Taiwanese employees. (closer to Taiwan so they can be home several times a year)
AZ Fab is less popular but still no shortage for volunteers.
TSMC also move some Oregon/Washington fab employees to AZ fab. They also went to Taiwan for training with new American employees.
 
If you want to see birthing pains just wait until Intel opens up in Ohio. And what about all of the other fabs around the world? The semiconductor industry as a whole is resource constrained, not just TSMC.
I wonder if Intel’s co-announced higher education investments will be able to keep up. That area of the country has some of the densest concentration of some top universities, so I would think that in the ~10 years it’s going to take to ramp this “mega site” that there would be a decent pipeline of local talent going.

Seems like a good ploy by Intel to set up in a new spot so they’re m not competing against the same AZ or TX or OR talent pools.
 
I wonder if Intel’s co-announced higher education investments will be able to keep up. That area of the country has some of the densest concentration of some top universities, so I would think that in the ~10 years it’s going to take to ramp this “mega site” that there would be a decent pipeline of local talent going.

Seems like a good ploy by Intel to set up in a new spot so they’re m not competing against the same AZ or TX or OR talent pools.
Maybe Iowa State will get an upgrade to it's microelectronics lab. We can move from our CYMOS process (yes it is spelled that way and it has a minimum feature size of 10 micrometers) to a far more advanced one micrometer process :ROFLMAO:.

As a side note for any ISU undergrad or grad students lurking on this thread; take microelectronics fabrication! It is an excellent class that made my resume shine and prepared me well for interviews. Talk to the EE department if you aren't EE or MatE, as they will waive the VLSI/circuits prereqs for other STEM folks.
 
Last edited:
I bet not. Double-pay too, apparently.


For any US-based employees with spouses or school-age children, living in Taiwan for 12-18 months (some articles say 6-12 months) is probably a non-starter.


"For any US-based employees with spouses or school-age children, living in Taiwan for 12-18 months (some articles say 6-12 months) is probably a non-starter."

How so?
 
News reports are now saying that TSMC is going to be investing $40 billion into their Phoenix site. Is that the amount that you guys assumed?

How expensive is housing in Japan near their the TSMC/Sony fab?

Prediction: TSMC will buy a 3D printer for townhouses surrounded by pebbles (no lawns) with built-in humidifiers. The housing will be free, with plenty of free shuttles to the fab and a Ranch 99. Employees will not be affected by high interest rates.
 
Last edited:
"For any US-based employees with spouses or school-age children, living in Taiwan for 12-18 months (some articles say 6-12 months) is probably a non-starter."

How so?
Why would that need an explanation? At my point in life I would love to go to the ROC for a year, it would be fun. However if I had family that would be a no go. I obviously can’t bring them with. But if I leave them at home I missed a year of my kid’s life and my wife would be lonely. My opinion family ALWAYS comes before employer.
 
Last edited:
"For any US-based employees with spouses or school-age children, living in Taiwan for 12-18 months (some articles say 6-12 months) is probably a non-starter."

How so?
To add weight to nghanayem's post, if the employee's spouse has a career, going to Taiwan probably means quitting and putting their career on hold, and loss of income. My spouse's career has always been at least as important to her as my career was to me, and while living in another country would be seen as an adventure, interrupting her career is a non-starter. As for children, interrupting school and taking them away from their friends is a highly disruptive situation for them. I know this from personal experience. Especially for young people, an 18 month separation could lead to various relationship problems.

Over breakfast this morning I told my wife of my post and your response. I'll spare you her reaction, but it was not supportive of your implied position.

The closest normal comparable situation in the US I can think of to what TSMC is apparently asking is US Navy personnel deployment on aircraft carriers and submarines. A simple internet search shows almost two million links to related web sites and articles about Navy deployments and assistance, advice, and discussion sites for Navy spouses. I think there's ample evidence that for many people a 6-18 month separation would be quite difficult and stressful.
 
News reports are now saying that TSMC is going to be investing $40 billion into their Phoenix site. Is that the amount that you guys assumed?

How expensive is housing in Japan near their the TSMC/Sony fab?

Prediction: TSMC will buy a 3D printer for townhouses surrounded by pebbles (no lawns) with built-in humidifiers. The housing will be free, with plenty of free shuttles to the fab and a Ranch 99. Employees will not be affected by high interest rates.
Seems about right for two leading edge logic fabs. Samsung quoted a similar amount for Texas (one for 17). Oddly intel said Ohio was two for 20, and 3000 people (vs the 4500 for the TSMC fabs in AZ). I don't know if the fabs they are building are smaller (maybe 15k wspm vs 25k that TSMC is doing)? Maybe intel is just more experienced building in the US, and can do the job more efficiently?
 
  • Like
Reactions: VCT
To add weight to nghanayem's post, if the employee's spouse has a career, going to Taiwan probably means quitting and putting their career on hold, and loss of income. My spouse's career has always been at least as important to her as my career was to me, and while living in another country would be seen as an adventure, interrupting her career is a non-starter. As for children, interrupting school and taking them away from their friends is a highly disruptive situation for them. I know this from personal experience. Especially for young people, an 18 month separation could lead to various relationship problems.

Over breakfast this morning I told my wife of my post and your response. I'll spare you her reaction, but it was not supportive of your implied position.

The closest normal comparable situation in the US I can think of to what TSMC is apparently asking is US Navy personnel deployment on aircraft carriers and submarines. A simple internet search shows almost two million links to related web sites and articles about Navy deployments and assistance, advice, and discussion sites for Navy spouses. I think there's ample evidence that for many people a 6-18 month separation would be quite difficult and stressful.

All those challenges you mentioned are true and they are not limited to new TSMC Arizona employees and not limited to semiconductor industry. In the US the domestic job locations, distance from family members, and kids' education can be among the factors that stop people accepting a new job.

What TSMC needs to do is to find qualified and willing candidates from domestic and international pools. It won't be easy but it's achievable.
 
Last edited:
All those challenges you mentioned are true and they are not limited to new TSMC Arizona employees and not limited to semiconductor industry. In the US the domestic job locations, distance from family members, and kids' education can be among the factors that stop people accepting a new job.

What TSMC needs to do is to find qualified and willing candidates from domestic and international pools. It won't be a easy but it's achievable.
I think TSMC will definitely find candidates, especially those who get a charge out of playing for the winning team, and those looking for an international adventure. They may have to pay a premium to attract the people they want, but compared to the cost of the fabs and the tooling, I can't believe higher salaries are a significant cost factor.

I also agree about job locations affecting domestic decisions. Since 1979 I've lived in seven cities in five US states, and I turned down some lucrative jobs because I couldn't make the geography work, or because I couldn't make a cost of living transition work. (Ohio to the Bay Area in the 1980s, for example, was simply not practical with a family.)
 
Last edited:
I think TSMC will definitely find candidates, especially those who get a charge out of playing for the winning team, and those looking for an international adventure. They may have to pay a premium to attract the people they want, but compared to the cost of the fabs and the tooling, I can't believe higher salaries are a significant cost factor.

I also agree about job locations affecting domestic decisions. Since 1979 I've lived in seven cities in five US states, and I turned down some lucrative jobs because I couldn't make the geography work, or because I couldn't make a cost of living transition work. (Ohio to the Bay Area in the 1980s, for example, was simply not practical with a family.)

Several years ago I met a financial advisor who graduated from West Point. He told me one of the major reasons for him to leave the Army was his wife, a dentist, can't keep rebuilding her patient base every time he transfered to a new Army assignment.
 
Several years ago I met a financial advisor who graduated from West Point. He told me one of the major reasons for him to leave the Army was his wife, a dentist, can't keep rebuilding her patient base every time he transferred to a new Army assignment.
This dilemma seems common in the high-tech community. When I worked in the Bay Area, I was surprised by how many people I met who were doing what I was doing: living in a condo or an apartment for work while a spouse or family stayed behind in another city. Many commuted home every weekend; I did twice per month. I also know people who are doing this in Seattle (and one in Chicago). This strategy can be practical when you're rather senior, and your compensation justifies supporting a second home and frequent airline tickets, but for most people earlier in their careers it is simply not practical.

I suppose it is easier now that many jobs do not require you live near a corporate office, but that's obviously not an option for the fab jobs that started this conversation.

This discussion about TSMC's requirements revived a memory of mine from when I graduated from college. Even though it was 1979 and the country was in a deep recession (many graduates in various fields were not getting any offers), people with software training were getting multiple offers. I got several. By far the most highly compensated offer was from a company called Electronic Data Systems (EDS). It was founded and led by Ross Perot, a former US Navy officer and independent presidential candidate. Perot apparently ran EDS like a military organization, and was famous for organizing the rescue of two EDS employees held hostage in Iran in the late 1970s. I'm not sure why, they never specified, but after multiple interviews EDS decided they wanted to hire me. I was dispatched to either Boston or Dallas for a final interview, I can't remember which, but I was interviewed by them in both cities, and presented with a huge by comparison offer. About 50% more than any other I had received. I was asked to make a decision on the spot. As a condition of employment, I had to agree to spend six weeks in Denver at a training facility, where I would live in what sounded like a dormitory, and spend every day, including weekends and holidays, training at least 12 hours per day, according to their description. Upon successful graduation from the training, I would be assigned to work in one of EDS's client cities, and I would not know which location until I graduated. I was incredulous. I declined the offer, since I wanted more determinism in my life. They were incredulous, telling me no one who reached that stage of the interview process for this sort of position had ever declined. (I thought that was a BS story.) When I refused to change my mind, I was dismissed. For a long time after that I wondered how my life would have been different if I was more adventurous that day.
 
This dilemma seems common in the high-tech community. When I worked in the Bay Area, I was surprised by how many people I met who were doing what I was doing: living in a condo or an apartment for work while a spouse or family stayed behind in another city. Many commuted home every weekend; I did twice per month. I also know people who are doing this in Seattle (and one in Chicago). This strategy can be practical when you're rather senior, and your compensation justifies supporting a second home and frequent airline tickets, but for most people earlier in their careers it is simply not practical.

I suppose it is easier now that many jobs do not require you live near a corporate office, but that's obviously not an option for the fab jobs that started this conversation.

This discussion about TSMC's requirements revived a memory of mine from when I graduated from college. Even though it was 1979 and the country was in a deep recession (many graduates in various fields were not getting any offers), people with software training were getting multiple offers. I got several. By far the most highly compensated offer was from a company called Electronic Data Systems (EDS). It was founded and led by Ross Perot, a former US Navy officer and independent presidential candidate. Perot apparently ran EDS like a military organization, and was famous for organizing the rescue of two EDS employees held hostage in Iran in the late 1970s. I'm not sure why, they never specified, but after multiple interviews EDS decided they wanted to hire me. I was dispatched to either Boston or Dallas for a final interview, I can't remember which, but I was interviewed by them in both cities, and presented with a huge by comparison offer. About 50% more than any other I had received. I was asked to make a decision on the spot. As a condition of employment, I had to agree to spend six weeks in Denver at a training facility, where I would live in what sounded like a dormitory, and spend every day, including weekends and holidays, training at least 12 hours per day, according to their description. Upon successful graduation from the training, I would be assigned to work in one of EDS's client cities, and I would not know which location until I graduated. I was incredulous. I declined the offer, since I wanted more determinism in my life. They were incredulous, telling me no one who reached that stage of the interview process for this sort of position had ever declined. (I thought that was a BS story.) When I refused to change my mind, I was dismissed. For a long time after that I wondered how my life would have been different if I was more adventurous that day.

You made the right decision. I'm not kidding.
 
Back
Top